Religious

[hcap]

Deuteronomy 30:11-14
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

11 “For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it [d]out of reach. 12 It is not in heaven, [e]that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, [f]that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.

[Greyfox]

Earlier in another thread I suggested that Muslims need to stand up and be counted against the Islam terrorists.
But when one does that they are accused of Islamophobia.
Indeed, I too was accused of that albeit obliquely.

Alas, I do have like minded supporters.
Writing in the esteemed "Spectator" author Douglas Murray has lashed out this week at the various principals in the world who refuse to label the recent Kenyan massacres as being all about Islam.
In a poignant article on the subject Murray has stated:

"I can see why politicians like David Cameron want to make sure that nobody blames Muslims as a whole for attacks like this. But telling the lie that such attacks have nothing whatsoever to do with Islam does no good at all. It lets the extremists off the hook and infuriates everybody else who end up wondering why the Prime Minister cannot see what everybody else can see.

As I have said often in response to this ‘noble lie’, the only way that Islam is going to get through its current problems is if followers of the religion realise that they have to actively confront the problem."
That article is entitled: "No, Mr. Cameron, The Kenyan Massacre is all about Islamism
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/douglas...bout-islamism/

In previous articles and debates Murray has accused the west of pampering to Islam by continual references to it as "The Religion of Peace."
In debates he's pointed out that The Quran is not about Peace.
Also he's written a new book entitled:
Islamophilia - how western leaders find it "in" to embrace Islam as a peaceful religion.
Below are two videos of Murray and his views.

[YT="Islamophilia"]701ASJV9pwA[/YT]

[YT="Islam - Religion of Peace?"]dZJ7Qt5PLHc[/YT]

[Light]

Originally Posted by Overlay

Are you saying that (from a human standpoint), I could not love my family, and also hate someone who was trying to kill them, at the same time?

If you kill a man in defense of your family, you don't have to bring hate into it. You are simply taking care of business.

We live in a world of duality (love and hate) and we struggle with that. We choose God to help us with that struggle. But this love/hate duality does NOT exist in God because God is Love. Therefore when you to say, God hates sin it is misnomer and a disrespect of God.

Originally Posted by Overlay

Sin is Satan's attempt to destroy man, and man's fellowship with a holy God. It has to be eradicated, because sin cannot co-exist with God, as God intended man to do. God's merciful determination to conquer Satan and sin on humanity's behalf was so strong that he sacrificed his own Son to pay the penalty that God's justice demanded for that sin.

Yes, I agree that this is the other side of the coin we deal with. However, I don't see everything that man or the Bible says as "evil" as "evil" or "bad". For example if there was nothing "evil" or "bad" in the world, then what incentive do we have to be "good" or to do "good". It draws our strength,determination and love from within to overcome these obstacles.This is an important reason for "evil" or "bad" to exist as weird as it sounds. As you know, a lot of times, things we think are really bad, turn out to be a blessing in disguise. Maybe in "heaven" this duality does not exist and we can just turn into spiritual marshmallows. But on this Earth, it is surely no free ride and a time and environment for spiritual growth.

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

God does indeed love and hate --

Can you say that "pure hate" is sometimes, "loving"? Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? Well that's what you just said about pure love.That it sometimes "hates".

Love and hate cannot co-exist simultaneously.Man is ruled by both love and hate. God is the entity of pure love and for you to say God hates, changes the properties of God. It's like saying water is wet, but sometimes dry. Sorry, you just changed water's properties. Pure "hate" doesn't sometimes "love" and pure "love" doesn't sometimes ""hate" otherwise, it's not pure.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

Can you say that "pure hate" is sometimes, "loving"? Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? Well that's what you just said about pure love.That it sometimes "hates".

Love and hate cannot co-exist simultaneously.Man is ruled by both love and hate. God is the entity of pure love and for you to say God hates, changes the properties of God. It's like saying water is wet, but sometimes dry. Sorry, you just changed water's properties. Pure "hate" doesn't sometimes "love" and pure "love" doesn't sometimes ""hate" otherwise, it's not pure.

It is not contradictory. God is first and foremost HOLY. HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is the Lord God of Hosts. A God of love can and does HATE evil. His holiness will not permit him to do otherwise. So, then, as those passages teach, God also "hates" evildoers. But he "hates" them in His holiness.

You see, you want to talk only about God's love, without any consideration for his controlling attribute of holiness. As stated previously, his love an hate is moral in nature, and should not be thought of in terms of how fallen human beings love and hate. We should not project our human feelings unto God.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

If you kill a man in defense of your family, you don't have to bring hate into it. You are simply taking care of business.

We live in a world of duality (love and hate) and we struggle with that. We choose God to help us with that struggle. But this love/hate duality does NOT exist in God because God is Love. Therefore when you to say, God hates sin it is misnomer and a disrespect of God.



Yes, I agree that this is the other side of the coin we deal with. However, I don't see everything that man or the Bible says as "evil" as "evil" or "bad". For example if there was nothing "evil" or "bad" in the world, then what incentive do we have to be "good" or to do "good". It draws our strength,determination and love from within to overcome these obstacles.This is an important reason for "evil" or "bad" to exist as weird as it sounds. As you know, a lot of times, things we think are really bad, turn out to be a blessing in disguise. Maybe in "heaven" this duality does not exist and we can just turn into spiritual marshmallows. But on this Earth, it is surely no free ride and a time and environment for spiritual growth.

"Spiritual marshmallows", eh? I bet you and Foxy would have a lot in common about how you would feel about dwelling with a holy God in which there is no evil.

Anyhow...even God's people on earth are supposed to hate evil. That is the "natural" disposition of the heart of born again people who have the Spirit of the living God indwelling them. Ponder 1 Cor 13 carefully. Love rejoices in righteousness -- not evil.

I could say much more on this subject, but I gotta run.

Boxcar

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

We should not project our human feelings unto God.

You have been doing just that for years. Hint: A bolt of lightning is something you should not ignore.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

Your posts are usually poor debunkings.

The blind poet Milton once said words to the effect that the mind can make a heaven out of hell and a hell out of heaven.
If you can't find heaven within you, certainly you'll never find it outside of you or in all the words of a million books (and I love reading.)

I never said that God's people didn't have the kingdom within them -- only that you and all other unbelievers do not! God is only God of the living, not the dead. So...until the day you pass out of your spiritual state of death into life -- the only kingdom that you have within in is Satan's -- and his kingdom is this world.

Boxcar
P.S. But even having said this about God's people, Luke 17 does NOT teach that the kingdom of God is "within us". There are other passages that could be appealed to, but not Luke 17! The reason so many like to appeal to this text in Luke and misinterpret it is because Jesus was addressing his adversaries -- the Pharisees.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

You have been doing just that for years. Hint: A bolt of lightning is something you should not ignore.

No, I haven't. I have used biblical analogies with respect to God, just as the bible often uses anthropomorphisms to accommodate our finite understanding of the infinite.

Boxcar

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I never said that God's people didn't have the kingdom within them -- only that you and all other unbelievers do not! God is only God of the living, not the dead. So...until the day you pass out of your spiritual state of death into life -- the only kingdom that you have within in is Satan's -- and his kingdom is this world.

Boxcar
P.S. But even having said this about God's people, Luke 17 does NOT teach that the kingdom of God is "within us". There are other passages that could be appealed to, but not Luke 17! The reason so many like to appeal to this text in Luke and misinterpret it is because Jesus was addressing his adversaries -- the Pharisees.

I'm more alive than you ever will be or ever dream of being.
You've brainwashed yourself to believe that garbage, to the point that you are deluding yourself about being alive and saved.
God Bless those who around you have to put up with your insufferable boorish speculations on a daily basis.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

No, I haven't. I have used biblical analogies with respect to God, just as the bible often uses anthropomorphisms to accommodate our finite understanding of the infinite.

Boxcar

Please don't use the bible to justify your awful interpretation of it. Using the concept of "gods children" to understand god disciplining and consequently destroying some of his wayward creation is inappropriate. And puerile. And insults our intelligence.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

P.S. But even having said this about God's people, Luke 17 does NOT teach that the kingdom of God is "within us". There are other passages that could be appealed to, but not Luke 17! The reason so many like to appeal to this text in Luke and misinterpret it is because Jesus was addressing his adversaries -- the Pharisees.

Luke 17 does indeed say that. All discussed before and I just posted arguments showing that it is at least as likely as your spin starting in my post #8519. But the very first point I made is as important as anything else.

Originally Posted by hcap

Because this is not clear among translations which is correct. What does that tell you about literal translation? Could it be the bible was not written by a perfect god? But rather imperfect men?

Anyway here are the various English translations. If we were to tally variations of "within you" versus "in your midst", the "within yous" beat out the "in your midst" by a few points.

[nomad1102]

[QUOTE=boxcar]

Originally Posted by nomad1102

But, sir, you have your own "dogma", don't you? Everyone does you know, whether you realize it or not. TJ's dogma is atheism. Actor's dogma is unlimited agnosticism. Hcap's is human secularism. Thaskalos' s unbridled, blissful ignorance. ShowMe's dogma are the doctrines of the RCC, etc., etc.

Oh, no. We're not absolved at all. We're still morally responsible. To be responsible, sir, does not necessarily mean ability to perform. In fact, the ability to choose between right and wrong is not even the primary definition of responsible. One has the moral duty to obey God (i.e. perform his word), which is the reason behind all the commands in the bible. Scripture tells us that the Law of Moses was added not to show the Israelites that they had the ability to keep the Law, but to show us how utterly sinful man is -- how morally destitute and bankrupt mankind is -- how incapable all men are at keeping God's holy law. This is why Christ came to fulfill the Law! To do for His Father's people what they cannot possibly do for themselves -- keep God's holy law perfectly.

And finally to answer your question about how one saturates his heart with the word -- by committing it to memory, which is how David "hid" God's word in his innermost being.

Boxcar

Dogma = intellectualizing scripture into a literal interpretation. Dogma is created by unenlightened men attempting to interpret writings of the enlightened.

When Constantine the murderer assembled his henchmen to construct the bible much did not make the cut. Do you know why? They had no idea of its true meaning. They were not spiritual men.

This did not make or would not have made the cut.

Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

[nomad1102]

[QUOTE=boxcar]

Originally Posted by nomad1102

But, sir, you have your own "dogma", don't you? Everyone does you know, whether you realize it or not. TJ's dogma is atheism. Actor's dogma is unlimited agnosticism. Hcap's is human secularism. Thaskalos' s unbridled, blissful ignorance. ShowMe's dogma are the doctrines of the RCC, etc., etc.

Oh, no. We're not absolved at all. We're still morally responsible. To be responsible, sir, does not necessarily mean ability to perform. In fact, the ability to choose between right and wrong is not even the primary definition of responsible. One has the moral duty to obey God (i.e. perform his word), which is the reason behind all the commands in the bible. Scripture tells us that the Law of Moses was added not to show the Israelites that they had the ability to keep the Law, but to show us how utterly sinful man is -- how morally destitute and bankrupt mankind is -- how incapable all men are at keeping God's holy law. This is why Christ came to fulfill the Law! To do for His Father's people what they cannot possibly do for themselves -- keep God's holy law perfectly.

And finally to answer your question about how one saturates his heart with the word -- by committing it to memory, which is how David "hid" God's word in his innermost being.

Boxcar

Something is missing here.

To be responsible, sir, does not necessarily mean ability to perform

One has the moral duty to obey God (i.e. perform his word)

We do not have the ability to perform but have a moral duty to perform?

[Greyfox]

It is clear that boxcar can only give robotic lifeless "Hal" Space Odyssey type regurgitations to questions that actually require creative thought for answers.
Expect nothing more. He's brainwashed.