Religious

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

You don't think I have tried?

To Boxcar...the religious documents of that era carry more weight than the historical ones.

I also told him that King Herod was not alive during the time of Jesus...but do you think that this made an impression on him?

Nope, no impression at all. What makes you think there weren't two Herods?
But...you've have chosen your three (or was it four?), so we'll leave all the Herods to rest in peace.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Jay Trotter

Way to go Gus! You stumped the "sorcerer of sapience"! One would think a person of his infinate knowledge would have had the answers at his finger tips, but noooooooooooo.......he's got to go do some research.

If you really believe your own fantasy, you're more delusional than I thought, and not only should get back on your meds, but your doc should double down on the dosage.

Boxcar

[Jay Trotter]

Originally Posted by boxcar

If you really believe your own fantasy, you're more delusional than I thought, and not only should get back on your meds, but your doc should double down on the dosage.

Boxcar

I see your lips moving but I can't hear a word you're saying!

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

You don't think I have tried?

To Boxcar...the religious documents of that era carry more weight than the historical ones.

I also told him that King Herod was not alive during the time of Jesus...but do you think that this made an impression on him?

That one is actually questionable. He likely died one of 4 points in time between 5 and 1 BCE, as Josephus cited an eclipse around that time, of which there were four in this period. 4 BCE is the most likely and most accepted. Of course there is zero evidence of the killing of the innocents, and this was at a time when things involving rulers at any rate were well documented. The census thing is unquestionably false however.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

That one is actually questionable. He likely died one of 4 points in time between 5 and 1 BCE, as Josephus cited an eclipse around that time, of which there were four in this period. 4 BCE is the most likely and most accepted. Of course there is zero evidence of the killing of the innocents, and this was at a time when things involving rulers at any rate were well documented. The census thing is unquestionably false however.

Believe my, Al...I have tried very hard...

I have posted 111 times in this thread...and most of them have been of the lengthy variety.

No historian of that time even mentions Jesus...which in itself is a remarkable fact.

You mention Josephus...

Many Christians make a big deal of the fact that Jesus is mentioned twice in Josephus' writings. But these Christians miss the "big picture"...

Josephus was a very detailed and exhaustive writer...whose works comprised 20 books.

He devoted entire pages to mere thieves...while taking 40 chapters to report on the life of a single king. And yet...his account of the Son of God is reduced to only a dozen lines?

It was a forgery...and all the Christian scholars know it.

How can the Son of God be completely ignored by the historians of that time...while Romans like King Herod and Pontius Pilot are remembered?

I explained all this to him...but to no avail.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Jay Trotter

I see your lips moving but I can't hear a word you're saying!

You neither see or hear. You're devoid of any understanding. You are like one of those "unreasoning beasts" in Jude.

Boxcar

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Believe my, Al...I have tried very hard...

I have posted 111 times in this thread...and most of them have been of the lengthy variety.

No historian of that time even mentions Jesus...which in itself is a remarkable fact.

You mention Josephus...

Many Christians make a big deal of the fact that Jesus is mentioned twice in Josephus' writings. But these Christians miss the "big picture"...

Josephus was a very detailed and exhaustive writer...whose works comprised 20 books.

He devoted entire pages to mere thieves...while taking 40 chapters to report on the life of a single king. And yet...his account of the Son of God is reduced to only a dozen lines?

It was a forgery...and all the Christian scholars know it.

How can the Son of God be completely ignored by the historians of that time...while Romans like King Herod and Pontius Pilot are remembered?

I explained all this to him...but to no avail.

Yes, the Jesus part is pretty much a given as a forgery. It doesn't even read right. He did however devote a short bit to the messianic activities of the time. There were a lot of them running around at the time. Being that Jesus spent most of his time out in the stix, I do not find it surprising he wasn't mentioned, Kings and leaders are always remembered and written of but some preacher from out in the country isn't. It's clear that he didn't make that big of a splash while still alive, but somehow he caught on when the others did not.

Another favorite thing of mine from the NT is the part where they "fulfill" the prophecy of him being of the house of David by running the lineage through Joseph......little remenant of the ultimate losing side in the god vs man debate. Kinda missed that part when they left that in.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Yes, the Jesus part is pretty much a given as a forgery. It doesn't even read right. He did however devote a short bit to the messianic activities of the time. There were a lot of them running around at the time. Being that Jesus spent most of his time out in the stix, I do not find it surprising he wasn't mentioned, Kings and leaders are always remembered and written of but some preacher from out in the country isn't. It's clear that he didn't make that big of a splash while still alive, but somehow he caught on when the others did not.

The majority were executed as well...

Jesus' inability to raise large amounts of followers is, ironically, probably what allowed Christianity to survive.

[Jay Trotter]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You neither see or hear. You're devoid of any understanding. You are like one of those "unreasoning beasts" in Jude.

Boxcar

Hey Jude, don't make it bad
Take a sad song and make it better
Remember to let her into your heart
Then you can start to make it better

Hey Jude, don't be afraid
You were made to go out and get her
The minute you let her under your skin
Then you begin to make it better

And anytime you feel the pain, hey Jude, refrain
Don't carry the world upon your shoulders
For well you know that it's a fool who plays it cool
By making his world a little colder
Nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah

[hcap]

There is no way he won't weasel out of any bet, or discussion

As a literal interpreter of the bible, he will argue usually for a one dimensional understanding of a particular biblical passage. However when cornered and pressed, that passage then must be taken in context of other passages requiring a more "interpretive" approach. Which leads to anything but the literal. Of course this takes many twists and turns. He retreats into a a house of cards and will never honestly see just how shaky the house is.

A third party to settle disputes is absolutely necessary. But he will never take part in a wager where real money is bet. I thought that a wager should be judged by a consensus vote. He has not agreed. Never will.

More so than going down the rabbit hole of contradictory passages and suffering increasing layers of his nonsense, the 2 areas he has always come up short are the conflicting actions of God, i.e. (totally wiping out the Amalekites infants versus a just God), and how well the bible holds up to scientific views of the natural world and the historical and archaeological records. He would never accept a real world bet asking him to dispute the scientific evidence against the world view in his theology.

BTW , I posted over a dozen contradictory examples in the bible a while ago. There are tons more. Overly countered some. Box stood on the outside cheering Overlay.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Yes, the Jesus part is pretty much a given as a forgery. It doesn't even read right. He did however devote a short bit to the messianic activities of the time. There were a lot of them running around at the time. Being that Jesus spent most of his time out in the stix, I do not find it surprising he wasn't mentioned, Kings and leaders are always remembered and written of but some preacher from out in the country isn't. It's clear that he didn't make that big of a splash while still alive, but somehow he caught on when the others did not.

Another favorite thing of mine from the NT is the part where they "fulfill" the prophecy of him being of the house of David by running the lineage through Joseph......little remenant of the ultimate losing side in the god vs man debate. Kinda missed that part when they left that in.

Yes...but this was no ordinary "preacher from out in the country".

This was a man who was killed...and came back from the grave.

Is there another story like that in the history of mankind?

How did the ancient historians overlook an event like that...if it indeed took place?

Can you imagine what would happen if a man were to actually walk out of a grave today?

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Another favorite thing of mine from the NT is the part where they "fulfill" the prophecy of him being of the house of David by running the lineage through Joseph......little remenant of the ultimate losing side in the god vs man debate. Kinda missed that part when they left that in.

The High/Low Christology debate is one that really throws off devout believers. I'm pretty sure Boxcar avoided the Arius vs. Athanasius question I posed to him in regards to how scripture has been developed and interpreted.

[Show Me the Wire]

Yes...but this was no ordinary "preacher from out in the country". Correct

This was a man who was killed...and came back from the grave. Again correct

Is there another story like that in the history of mankind? No and it was spread by eyewitnesses to the events.

How did the ancient historians overlook an event like that...if it indeed took place? Ever think conspiracy, trying to maintain the balance of power?

Can you imagine what would happen if a man were to actually walk out of a grave today? Yes and it may happen as Satan always counterfeits God's works.

[lsbets]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Is there another story like that in the history of mankind?

Osiris. As I am sure you are well aware, is the resurrected son of the ancient Egyptian Godhead, and is the genesis of the Jesus myth in neighboring Palestine.

[Show Me the Wire]

Osiris was not resurrected, he was reassembled by his wife. Horas is more akin to a Jesus figure as horas represented the word of god.