Probe of NYRA execs may be launched - NYRA may lose slots subsidies

[FenceBored]

Originally Posted by MadWorld

Doesn't Hayward's email make more sense in this light? It is clear the state does not want to lower takeout and every action they make is against lowered takeout. Pay attention indulto, jelly, and thaskalos...

The state has no interest in racing and no interest in making horseplayers happy.

They want a convention center at Aqueduct, not improved racing.

No, it doesn't. Hayward's email makes sense in the context of someone making excuses for not pushing something they have no strong interest in pushing.

Answer this one: If Hayward, et al, were really interested in pushing for a takeout reduction after the sunsetting of the 2008 provisions, how is it that they didn't look closely enough at those provisions to see the problem with the exotic takeout rate?

It's not hard to spot if you look at it.

[cj]

Originally Posted by FenceBored

Yeah well, except they did reduce non-carryover P6 takeout the following year, in 2004.

The New York State Racing and Wagering Board backed a plan proposed by NYRA to lower the current 20% takeout rate to 15% on non-carryover days, or days when there is a fresh wagering pool. The lower takeout takes effect April 1.

Read more on BloodHorse.com: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...#ixzz1vnqf9qq1

Huge difference as I'm sure you know.

[FenceBored]

Originally Posted by cj

Huge difference as I'm sure you know.

Yep, there's a huge difference between working to frustrate your political opponents resulting in lowering a component of takeout and agreeing to an increase to try and placate them. Glad to see you're beginning to get it.

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Funny...

When I was venting against California Racing because of their takeouts...nobody accused me of having a "hidden agenda".

I am not anti-NYRA or anti-CHRB...I am pro-horseplayer.

If you intentionally hurt the player...then I am against you.

Plain and simple...

Other than the takeout scandal, which even you would have to admit is stale at this point, what are your issues?

When I asked you privately, all you did was insult me, so maybe you'll actually answer here, although based on prior history I doubt it.

I expect this stuff from others. They're proud of being misinformed and think takeout can be lowered or raised like someone turns on a light switch. But you should know better.

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by Indulto

Now that was funny. You do have a sense of humor after all.

I post on horse racing message boards. Having a sense of humor is mandatory.

[cj]

Originally Posted by FenceBored

Yep, there's a huge difference between working to frustrate your political opponents resulting in lowering a component of takeout and agreeing to an increase to try and placate them. Glad to see you're beginning to get it.

Changing a pool that was not successful at all to try to drum up business is a LOT different than cutting takeout on the biggest pools at the track. The P6 thing wasn't going to hurt OTB one iota, thus it wasn't fought.

The bolded part is hilarious. Frustrate them? They can't win that fight. It is clear to me you really don't know much about how things have worked in New York over the years. They ask, and are told yes or no. Sure, they can fight, but you learn over time to fight battles you can actually win.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

Other than the takeout scandal, which even you would have to admit is stale at this point, what are your issues?

When I asked you privately, all you did was insult me, so maybe you'll actually answer here, although based on prior history I doubt it.

I expect this stuff from others. They're proud of being misinformed and think takeout can be lowered or raised like someone turns on a light switch. But you should know better.

You contacted me privately to tell me that I didn't have to keep on playing this game if I wasn't happy with the way the game treats me. It's an old argument, and the horsemen are using it as well.

Loyal horseplayers, who have been enthusiastically supporting this game for decades, are being called "blowhards" when they voice their disapproval of the industry's stance towards them...and are being asked to "leave if we don't like it here".

Nice.

I know many businesses who treat their best customers like that.

And I insulted you only because you insulted me!

I've noticed some of you "NYRA guys" keeping abnormally quiet during this takeout scandal, but I never commented about your silence because you have the right to do what you want to do.

But who are you guys to try and silence those few of us who choose to speak up when an obvious injustice against the player has taken place?

Where are all the "NYRA bashers" that you guys keep on talking about? I've been as active as any other poster on this board as of late...but even I have a hard time finding them.

Keep quiet if you want to...but that's not my style.

My "hidden agenda" is to attack injustice wherever it's to be found...with no exceptions.

And I am through answering any more of your questions.

Try dear Abby...

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

You contacted me privately to tell me that I didn't have to keep on playing this game if I wasn't happy with the way the game treats me. It's an old argument, and the horsemen are using it as well.

Loyal horseplayers, who have been enthusiastically supporting this game for decades, are being called "blowhards" when they voice their disapproval of the industry's stance towards them...and are being asked to "leave if we don't like it here".

Nice.

I know many businesses who treat their best customers like that.

And I insulted you only because you insulted me!

I've noticed some of you "NYRA guys" keeping abnormally quiet during this takeout scandal, but I never commented about your silence because you have the right to do what you want to do.

But who are you guys to try and silence those few of us who choose to speak up when an obvious injustice against the player has taken place?

Where are all the "NYRA bashers" that you guys keep on talking about? I've been as active as any other poster on this board as of late...but even I have a hard time finding them.

Keep quiet if you want to...but that's not my style.

My "hidden agenda" is to attack injustice wherever it's to be found...with no exceptions.

And I am through answering any more of your questions.

Try dear Abby...

No, I contacted you privately to see what you would like done in this situation. I said if you are unhappy with how you are being treated, you don't have to play NYRA and that as people we have the ability to control how we are treated. You have mentioned many times you ahve other gambling options. So...if you are that upset, do something about it. Don't give them your business.

True to form, you avoided my inquiry and then insulted me. Nice try by saying I insulted you first...but come on.

I'm not trying to silence you at all. You want to just complain endlessly on the internet, about something you're not familiar about....go for it. You certainly have plenty of company there.

But a discussion happens when people exchange ideas. In order to exchange those ideas....you actually have to have an idea. You can't keep falling back on your Mayor of PA routine.

[Cardus]

Who is trying to silence whom in this thread, Thaskalos?

Where is the silencing?

This looks like an exchange of ideas, some more informed than others.

[Tom]

Thank you!

[Indulto]

Originally Posted by MadWorld

Doesn't Hayward's email make more sense in this light? It is clear the state does not want to lower takeout and every action they make is against lowered takeout. Pay attention indulto, jelly, and thaskalos...

The state has no interest in racing and no interest in making horseplayers happy.

They want a convention center at Aqueduct, not improved racing.

The reference to politicians in the emails always made sense, but refusing to implement the sunset provision never did.

While I think Cuomo's intentions are good, I do have doubts about Silver, Skelos, and Sabini. If Megna was part of the slots franchise bidder selection process, I don't think he should be involved in its expansion at the expense of the racing operation it was expected to support.

The state does want a convevtion center, but it also wants horseplayers to bet more money -- happily or not -- and the racing operation to make money for itself and the state. Even if NYRA's share of national handle is 30% (I'd like to see a link to the source), that handle is down at least that percentage from its peak, and from which NYRA still couldn't make money running year round at three physical locations with 90% of its handle coming from OTB and ADWs.

Something had to change. Those who claim to be "informed" and still support the status quo are in denial.

[burnsy]

living here for most of my life (upstate and downstate NY). i can see problems on both sides. the state and NYRA. NYRA did itself no favors with the takeout ordeal. but the state just can't fire people and move on like any other business would do. they have been pressing NYRA for months on everything and this misdeed by board leaders was the final crushing blow. people are 100% correct the bettor is the one that got screwed...no one else. now the state will be more involved in NYRA and racing....but this is NY state...it could go either way. if the governor and his people really care, maybe things will get better for bettors....i would not hold my breath on this one...its NY state......or they could stick a dagger in it because so much casino money is at stake....anyone thats singing "happy days are here again"...may be in for a bold surprise. since ny is the best racing in the summer and a about third of the handle is bet on it annually. i think horseplayers should band together instead of agruing over the politics of this entire fiasco. whether you hate or like NYRA believe me when i say that this is something way beyond take outs and scandals. they count on you guys to argue and fight over their BS...because if horseplayers are just a bunch gamblers that sit around and argue amoung each other.....thats what NYRA and the state of NY expect....thats why they've been doing this to us for the last 15 years or so......wake up already, this feud has been brewing for over a decade...who are the casualties? go look in the mirror.......neither NYRA nor NY state give a SH!T...... having a pissing match really helps this situation.???

[Indulto]

Originally Posted by burnsy

living here for most of my life (upstate and downstate NY). i can see problems on both sides. the state and NYRA. NYRA did itself no favors with the takeout ordeal. but the state just can't fire people and move on like any other business would do. they have been pressing NYRA for months on everything and this misdeed by board leaders was the final crushing blow. people are 100% correct the bettor is the one that got screwed...no one else. now the state will be more involved in NYRA and racing....but this is NY state...it could go either way. if the governor and his people really care, maybe things will get better for bettors....i would not hold my breath on this one...its NY state......or they could stick a dagger in it because so much casino money is at stake....anyone thats singing "happy days are here again"...may be in for a bold surprise. since ny is the best racing in the summer and a about third of the handle is bet on it annually. i think horseplayers should band together instead of agruing over the politics of this entire fiasco. whether you hate or like NYRA believe me when i say that this is something way beyond take outs and scandals. they count on you guys to argue and fight over their BS...because if horseplayers are just a bunch gamblers that sit around and argue amoung each other.....thats what NYRA and the state of NY expect....thats why they've been doing this to us for the last 15 years or so......wake up already, this feud has been brewing for over a decade...who are the casualties? go look in the mirror.......neither NYRA nor NY state give a SH!T...... having a pissing match really helps this situation.???

Specifically, what do you think can be achieved by a coalition of horseplayers?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Who is trying to silence whom in this thread, Thaskalos?

Where is the silencing?

This looks like an exchange of ideas, some more informed than others.

It looks like an exchange of ideas to you when I am called a "blowhard" with a "hidden agenda"...just because I am unwilling to forgive NYRA for their role in this mess?

Where is the proof that I have a hidden agenda?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

It looks like an exchange of ideas to you when I am called a "blowhard" with a "hidden agenda"...just because I am unwilling to forgive NYRA for their role in this mess?

Where is the proof that I have a hidden agenda?

Every post you have made references the takeout snafu, so I'm still wondering what would you like done to rectify it. The individuals who were pinpointed for being guilty are gone and NYRA is going to have completely new leadership. They also made a concerted effort to pay back their portion of what was mistakenly withheld. You keep making bold statements about how you were lied to and cheated, etc. So, is there an end to all of this?