How was there no inquiry for 2nd?

[MJC922]

Originally Posted by burnsy

There is no back and forth . The inside horse has the right to run straight . And that race was razor close . Any deviation costs a placing in that situation. Christ , they took Maximum Security down and he rolled by open lengths . It wasn’t even close. There’s no excitement value or any bs excuses . You had people on here calling that dq a good call . And nothing is even flashing here? F’in joke . And this didn’t even cost me a dime . I didn’t have the winner . Then people are head scratching, crying when the handle is down . Gee, I wonder why people think this game is a joke . The cheating, the officials, the cover ups and it never ends .

Are you ok with taking the 3 down too because he cost the 1 the ability to run his race when he herded him into the rail at the break? I think it's bad enough the best horse lost. Putting him third does not gain fans I can tell you that.

[PalaceOfFortLarned]

Originally Posted by MJC922

Are you ok with taking the 3 down too because he cost the 1 the ability to run his race when he herded him into the rail at the break? I think it's bad enough the best horse lost. Putting him third does not gain fans I can tell you that.

The 7th best horse got put up in 2019 and never ran again.

[bisket]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Something like would require the stewards to know the tendencies of every horse. We are lucky they show up and don't screw up even more races.

What needs to be debated is whether we want NBA style racing where more race riding and physicality is allowed in the playoffs/Derby or whether we want every race to be ruled exactly the same.

This is the problem.

In a 20 horse field there's going to be a lot of bumping, checking and drifting at the start and during the race, especially because the money is huge and everyone is going to going all out for position and the win. The ride on the winner caused some bumping and was pretty dangerous also.

If they call everything, there are going to be a lot more jockey/owner objections raised than in the typical 5-8 horse field.

Do we want 3 blind mice making all these extra subjective decisions or do want to accept some more physicality and race riding in the Derby and then have to deal with a case like this where it looks like an easy decision to DQ?

I'm not sure. I just want them to be consistent.

I get that there's going to be some roughness during the race. We watched a horse move his competitor over three lanes during the last 1/8 of a mile of the race. It was probably the most high percentage move we could have predicted during race. Save maybe Fierceness spitting the bit at the top of the stretch

[HottalkersinKY]

Originally Posted by Tom

I think with all the crap about the Derby they were not going to draw any attention shy of knocking a rider off the horse.

totally agrree

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by bisket

I get that there's going to be some roughness during the race. We watched a horse move his competitor over three lanes during the last 1/8 of a mile of the race. It was probably the most high percentage move we could have predicted during race. Save maybe Fierceness spitting the bit at the top of the stretch

I had Sierra Leone and Forever Young boxed. The bumping cost both of them. IMO they would have been 1-2 without that.

Before the race I absolutely knew there was a risk he'd come in again and either cost himself the race or get DQ'd. I probably underrated the possibility. I guess I thought Chad would correct it or it wouldn't continue to be a problem. Maybe that paddling he does with the left front is going to continue to be an issue for him.

[denniswilliams]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I had Sierra Leone and Forever Young boxed. The bumping cost both of them. IMO they would have been 1-2 without that.

Before the race I absolutely knew there was a risk he'd come in again and either cost himself the race or get DQ'd. I probably underrated the possibility. I guess I thought Chad would correct it or it wouldn't continue to be a problem. Maybe that paddling he does with the left front is going to continue to be an issue for him.

Watch the headon of his maiden win - Manny up.

Watch the headon of the Remsen - Jose Ortiz up (laughable)

Watch headons of his races with Gaffalione up.

I kept asking myself, as the race got closer, why the connections were continuing to ride Gaffalione, when it was clear he wasn't strong enough to handle the horse in the lane.

Watch how Manny handles him.

But Brown is a super smart/capable, right?

That's why so many competent handicappers actually thought Domestic Product was a contender. :

This is all on Brown. (Unless the owners insisted of Gaffalione)

[denniswilliams]

Originally Posted by MJC922

To be honest I'd have gone right-handed from the get go at the top of the stretch, maybe he's a left handed rider I dunno. If he went right handed he had plenty of paths to move left as Resilience shifted over a number of paths immediately upon straightening. Where as with going left handed he had maybe half a path initially to move right vs a horse he should know will be moving in. Anyway, that's my thought is right handed and then I suspect they both would've moved left repeatedly but with far less contact overall. It's a rodeo kind of race, I would rather let it be but I can see where other people are coming from who want more intervention.

Both jocks are to blame. Each could have gotten out of the bumpfest and won the race. All they had to do was pull their horses off THEN bust them with the whip, if necessary.

Gaffalione has proven he doesn't have the strength to whip this horse straight. What an embarrassing ride.

[bisket]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I had Sierra Leone and Forever Young boxed. The bumping cost both of them. IMO they would have been 1-2 without that.

Before the race I absolutely knew there was a risk he'd come in again and either cost himself the race or get DQ'd. I probably underrated the possibility. I guess I thought Chad would correct it or it wouldn't continue to be a problem. Maybe that paddling he does with the left front is going to continue to be an issue for him.

I agree both would have beat Dan. I think Forever Young was probably the best horse on the track. Not including the stretch he overcame a lot. We need to get some of that Sunday Silence blood in our horses. Japan has probably surpassed us at our own game…. Dirt racing

[MJC922]

Originally Posted by denniswilliams

Both jocks are to blame. Each could have gotten out of the bumpfest and won the race. All they had to do was pull their horses off THEN bust them with the whip, if necessary.

Gaffalione has proven he doesn't have the strength to whip this horse straight. What an embarrassing ride.

I thought he rode him well but I understand peoples disappointment. I think it's something they need to work on with the horse but if someone wanted to put another rider up to see if they'd fare better I can see that point of view. I don't know if I would go that route personally. I'd probably skip the preakness, take him somewhere, training center wherever and try to work this out. Let Bob be Bob in the Preakness and then pay everyone a visit in the Belmont with (hopefully) a better behaved horse.

[PalaceOfFortLarned]

Originally Posted by bisket

I agree both would have beat Dan. I think Forever Young was probably the best horse on the track. Not including the stretch he overcame a lot. We need to get some of that Sunday Silence blood in our horses. Japan has probably surpassed us at our own game…. Dirt racing

They sent but 3 horses this week in one of our most fabulous weekends.

2nd, 3rd, 5th. The 2nd place horse in the G2 Alysheba had running lines of a $10K claimer and nearly ran the field off their feet.

T O Password made his 3rd career start in the KY Derby, was hammered out of the gate, and ran on for 5th. Forever Young also had a tough trip but fought to the very end.

They aren't the easy tosses of years gone by. They are legit contenders that are winning all over the planet and have to be respected.

[cj]

Originally Posted by denniswilliams

Both jocks are to blame. Each could have gotten out of the bumpfest and won the race. All they had to do was pull their horses off THEN bust them with the whip, if necessary.

Gaffalione has proven he doesn't have the strength to whip this horse straight. What an embarrassing ride.

One rider did nothing wrong and deserved no blame.

[46zilzal]

Bumping did nothing to change the finish order

[PalaceOfFortLarned]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

Bumping did nothing to change the finish order

Race came down to a photo finish among 3 horses, and yet the bumping didn't change the order of finish?

I got the raw end of it all with the , and I'm fine with it, but to say it had nothing to do with the finish?

[wiretowire68]

the discussions regarding the amount of entries they allow now. 20 horses and that run to the turn to save ground.. every interview between TVG and NBC when speaking to D.W. Lukas, Whitman, and ownership of Honor Marie, and I probably missed a couple but is the same conversations since this started, the extreme bumping and moving when it comes to position and not getting caught wide early depending on the style of running and strategy employed.

I bet Mystik Dan to win along with Sierra Leone and exacta box with Fierceness, Japanese horses killed my tri bets and supers etc. I had Resilience and Honor Marie at the back and Resilience just plain flattened out and Honor Marie just got shuffled so far back that it was far too late to make a move. Japanese horse and Sierra Leone ended up together at the half and basically started moving at the same time. I still believe when watching the head on.. Gaffalione and Sierra Leone was lugging in and Forever Young was caused to take a split second of focus and pushed head right over to keep him from pushing.
'
I do not think Mystik Dan did anything wrong, it was typical smart ride tuck to the rail like Borel and saw a hole and went through.. Track Phantom was tiring as they straightened. Getting back to what I was saying.. it is the same question every year. Is it too many horses.. it use to be 12-14-16 and then to 20, I think it makes for outstanding riding skills and adds the great excitement.. They do it In England, Ireland, Australia all the time.. So, I do not see it as a valid excuse to lessen the field size.

As far as stewards, no objections and no inquiry.. classy by the Japanese and I will throw it to Gaffalione as partly to blame because he has ridden the horse 3 times in a row now. In New York I believe it was an Ortiz.. he said the horse is very difficult to keep him moving left.. then.. you either train it out of him or put blinkers on to see if it changes or you get a more experienced jockey who has the strength and the experience to keep him straighter. ?

[Redboard]

Originally Posted by cj

Of course, it happens all the time. Stewards post inquiry as soon as races finish sometimes.

I looked at the NBC replay of the race. It took about 12 minutes to post the results from after the horses crossed the wire. Immediately after the results were posted Mike Tirico semi-explained saying " the stewards held up to make sure there was no claim of foul or interference. "