Are you a HANA member

[exactaplayer]

Originally Posted by cj's dad

Why would any rational horseplayer NOT support HANA and their collective efforts?

Could you or anyone here identify ONE negative regarding being a HANA member?

Like i said, I support Hana and their efforts. The only negative I can think of is the overall dislike of Unions (collective efforts) by many on this board.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by jonnielu

I voted no. HANA is at least equal to industry management in a lack of vision, while it is more narrow-minded. It does more to keep the average person away from the sport, then it does to bring them in or win them over.

You greet the newcomer with a lot of negativity about how F'd up the game is because of the ignorance of management, and beckon him/her to join you in a snivelfest that is supposed to change it.

When all they want to do is sip a cold bear, do a little gaming, and chat up members of the opposite sex. If you could help them do that for a while, they might develop an interest in the sport while they are at it. There are many ways of doing that, telling the newcomer that he can never win because the take-out is too high, and all of the horses are on dope, is not one of them.

jdl

If you are a Horseplayer that goes to the Track or plays the horses a couple of times a year then I understand. On the other hand if you're a regular Player then your ignorance is stunning.

HANA and the good People that created it put in a lot of time and effort to do so and for you to minimize and denegrate that effort is weak at best. These guys have done more to help Horseplayers in the short time they have been in existence than anyone ever. I believe the simple note that Jeff sent the CHRB about their plans to increase takeout in California prevented a massive increase (my informed opinion). Oh and by the way these guys did all this stuff with no compensation and no dues from the members. They are true believers in their cause and any fair minded person should respect that.

Just stating that HANA is a "buzz kill" for casual racegoers is not enough. Calling their positions a "snivelfest" when that is exactly what you're doing is weak as well.

I don't agree with every single one of HANA's positions and anyone who thinks they have to agree with everthing before they join is making a big mistake. I think if they could do a couple of things over they might, but as time goes on Members of HANA should contribute to the debate. Adjustements will come with time and effort.

Have the "stones" to join HANA and start a thread with your specific grievances and your specific solutions so the debate can move forward (be specific)! Sniping from the sidelines gets us nowhere.

As I said earlier, if you're a casual racegoer doing a driveby then I understand but if you have something intelligent to say and something intelligent to back it up then start a thread and be specific. Maybe you could improve HANA's positions, maybe not, but at least make an effort!

[Cangamble]

Originally Posted by exactaplayer

Like i said, I support Hana and their efforts. The only negative I can think of is the overall dislike of Unions (collective efforts) by many on this board.

I don't get the correlation between unions and Hana. In order to even have a say we need numbers. If you agree with Hana's mandate, you should become a member. Every group action we do has to do with the goals of the mandate. And we are all individuals who each have a unique POV.
We are volunteers. The board has a weekly conference call, and we don't get paid a dime for it. Do union bosses make money?

Good luck trying to change the mindset of the race track execs and horsemen by just trying to debate them one on one, or writing articles that are seen by some and not by others.

The only way to fight this industry is through the strength of a group. And we need numbers. So sign up.

[miesque]

Originally Posted by exactaplayer

Like i said, I support Hana and their efforts. The only negative I can think of is the overall dislike of Unions (collective efforts) by many on this board.

I can totally relate to a dislike of Unions, but if anyone feels that way I would like to point out that there is a very significant difference between the Horseplayers Association of North America and a union and anyone who knows me would know there is no way I would be on the Board of a union (no offense to anyone who happens to be in a union). We are an advocacy group, not a union. A good comparison to make is there is a massive difference between a group like AARP (which I think is a decent example) and the Teamsters, AFL-CIO, UAW, etc.

[miesque]

I forgot to add that in regards to all of jonnielu's comments above, it takes a lot to make me speechless and those comments pretty much did the trick. All I can state is that track management, state regulators and horsemens groups all fervently wish that all horseplayers strongly believed the tenets espoused in those statements.

[BillW]

Originally Posted by miesque

All I can state is that track management, state regulators and horsemens groups all fervently wish that all horseplayers strongly believed the tenets espoused in those statements.

At least those who believe that horse racing is a healthy and growing industry .

[DeanT]

Johnnie,

There is a group called Thorofan, run by a couple of passionate fans. They are more along the line with what you advocate - bringing people out, cultivating the live racing base with giveaways and things like that. They have a jockey who helps on the advisory board and has had some meet and greets, etc. They have a non-confrontational stance with the tracks, as well. That group might be more to your liking and I encourage you to check them out. There is power in numbers!

[jonnielu]

Originally Posted by Warren Henry

If we do this right they will be FORCED to consider our desires and that will be good for the future of racing.

Forcing your desires on others doesn't have a good record of overall success.

jdl

[miesque]

While we are on this topic, I would just like to point out that while its impossible to satisfy everyone all of the time (which I think most people understand), constructive critiscism can be very useful and is appreciated. My one request for those critiquing HANA and making comments/suggestions is please to keep in mind the constraints we are subject to, what is actually feasibly over a short, mid and long term horizon and the fact that we are trying our best to run the organization in as professional a manner as possible.

[jonnielu]

Originally Posted by Cangamble

The only way to fight this industry is through the strength of a group. And we need numbers. So sign up.

As if the better way to promote and change the industry in it's appeal to people is to beat it up real good first.

jdl

[Cangamble]

Originally Posted by jonnielu

As if the better way to promote and change the industry in it's appeal to people is to beat it up real good first.

jdl

Lying about the game doesn't work, neither does pretending what I pointed out doesn't exist either.
HANA didn't exist up until less than a year ago. Racing forums didn't exist either while racing declined from 1978 on....but racing still declined for the reasons I stated. Now we are finally trying to wake others up as to why the game is broken, hoping to get the powers that be to fix them going forward.

The industry has beaten itself up, don't shoot the messenger.

[kenwoodallpromos]

I just checked Bing (MSN) search- HANA got positive PR from Entrepenuer Mag, Businesswire, Standardbred sites, and of course the top HANA rated tracks; The PR was almost all from the HANA Track Ratings, and included the mentions of favoring customers and lower takeout.
IMO HANA needs to rate harness and quarterhorse tracks also, and also find a way to rate tracks in terms of betting opportunities, say rating by types of bets, like betting on favorites, longshots, exotics, shippers, low level caimers, the most stakes, sprints, routes, odd distances, on fillies and on mares. On some types of bets of course fuller fields would be best, some maybe not.
The tracks can also be rated by races run closest to post time, least inquiries, short teller lines, best food and other prices, ambience, etc. Anything that would give many more tracks top ratings in some columns of the ratings. HANA can then issue several sepeate press releases, including one that mentions the each different rating catagory and the various tracks tops in those areas. Kind of like a business with 12 employees honoring a different "employee of the month" for 1 year!
Maybe a couple of more rating reports would give other tracks a chance to spread the word about us. should even consider a webpage listing all Quarterhorse, Harness, and TBred tracks in the US and Canada, listing sme kind of positives about each and giving a link to the track website.
IMO we want to get the attention and ear of the industry abd its components, to use influence instead of force. I think every track knows the problems- HANA lets them know that they are being monitored by the horseplayers as well as the general public, and exactly where the individual track stands in terms of satisfaction.

[jonnielu]

Originally Posted by andymays

If you are a Horseplayer that goes to the Track or plays the horses a couple of times a year then I understand. On the other hand if you're a regular Player then your ignorance is stunning.

HANA and the good People that created it put in a lot of time and effort to do so and for you to minimize and denegrate that effort is weak at best. These guys have done more to help Horseplayers in the short time they have been in existence than anyone ever. I believe the simple note that Jeff sent the CHRB about their plans to increase takeout in California prevented a massive increase (my informed opinion). Oh and by the way these guys did all this stuff with no compensation and no dues from the members. They are true believers in their cause and any fair minded person should respect that.

So, they are entitled to their beliefs, but I am not entitled to mine? I throw mine out there for consideration without any demand that they are respected, or any effort to impose them. Maybe you should be calling chickenhead ignorant for asking while you are at it.

Just stating that HANA is a "buzz kill" for casual racegoers is not enough. Calling their positions a "snivelfest" when that is exactly what you're doing is weak as well.

I'm not sniveling about the casual fan being the principal object of the industry, I'm just pointing it out as a fact. Perhaps if HANA recognized that reality, instead of bemoaning the fact that horseplayers are not the principal object, you could make some progress.

As it stands now, nothing much can happen until you succeed in beating up management to the point that HANA is recognized as the veritable backbone of the industry.

I don't agree with every single one of HANA's positions and anyone who thinks they have to agree with everthing before they join is making a big mistake. I think if they could do a couple of things over they might, but as time goes on Members of HANA should contribute to the debate. Adjustements will come with time and effort.

Why would members or non-members contribute to the debate when you don't wish to participate? A differing point of view is quickly labled as ignorant, uninformed, and dismissed out of hand with no consideration.

Have the "stones" to join HANA and start a thread with your specific grievances and your specific solutions so the debate can move forward (be specific)! Sniping from the sidelines gets us nowhere.

And, now I have no stones?

As I said earlier, if you're a casual racegoer doing a driveby then I understand but if you have something intelligent to say and something intelligent to back it up then start a thread and be specific. Maybe you could improve HANA's positions, maybe not, but at least make an effort!

Just don't disagree. As I said, I believe that the message of HANA is getting out loud and clear, and driving people away 24/7.

I've been around 32 years, I've asked why you believe what you do, you have always assumed that I have no reason to believe what I do simply because it differs, not because you know anything about what I believe.

Just because you can't win, doesn't mean people can't win. I doubt you know why other people come to the racetrack in the first place.

jdl

[jonnielu]

Originally Posted by Cangamble

Lying about the game doesn't work, neither does pretending what I pointed out doesn't exist either.
HANA didn't exist up until less than a year ago. Racing forums didn't exist either while racing declined from 1978 on....but racing still declined for the reasons I stated. Now we are finally trying to wake others up as to why the game is broken, hoping to get the powers that be to fix them going forward.

The industry has beaten itself up, don't shoot the messenger.

What in particular are you calling me a liar about?

[Cangamble]

Originally Posted by jonnielu

What in particular are you calling me a liar about?

You imply that nothing has changed in regards to the game being beatable today like it was in 1978.
That is deceptive at best.
And I wasn't talking specifically about you, but about tracks if they were to use your style to advertise the product.

Any hoot. You are on ignore after this response. You are now cherry picking parts of threads to respond to. You mentioned nothing about my analogy between 1978 and now. And you are too dimwitted to spend anymore time on, as you are saying HANA is driving people away, yet you ignored my post regarding people being driven away long before HANA and racing Forums came onto the scene.

Buh bye.