Are you a HANA member

[Warren Henry]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

Although I have yet to see any track do more than pay lip service to HANA - one exec told me that in private the group is referred to as HAHA -

We are new and still taking baby steps. The fact that racing execs are even aware of our existence (regardless of what they think or call us at the moment) is a very positive thing. They know we are here. They will watch our growth and will take note of our successes. If we do this right they will be FORCED to consider our desires and that will be good for the future of racing.

[Dave Schwartz]

Warren,

I agree completely.

But we need more numbers. (I know - patience.)


Dave

[kenwoodallpromos]

HANA at the moment is recruiting more current horseplayers than anyone else, is run only by horseplayers, and is growing fast- that is why we are getting noticed by those who CAN pressure tracks like the media, And I see HANA getting more favorable attention from the racing media than tracks themselves, connections, or regulating bodies.
IMO HANA should recruit anyone who has ever stepped foot on the track, including once a year bettors at Stockton and the other Ca racing fairs.
The general public has notions already about some of racing's negatives. IMO they should know that the people who risk their own money are trying to ensure fairness throughout racing. Trying to work with the tracks by having signup booths at the tracks will help track attendance merely by having a membership in racing (maybe special track discounts)- they can also direct them by listings included on 3X5 ID card to info advantageous to players- like PA and other sites for learning and discussion of handicapping; Turfpedia, Pedigreequery, Bloodhorse, Cindy Dulay's free PP listings, Brisnet's "At a Glances", NTRA's member discounts with advertisers, etc.

[jonnielu]

Originally Posted by CincyHorseplayer

Jonielu I think you are part of that old generation of horseplayers that are bitter,sore losers and when your kind dies off the game will be for the better.Might sound a little harsh but it's true IMO.I don't know why some of you old cranks even bother to show up at the track.That hatred and contempt is pure posion for drawing a new audience.

Wow, that's exactly the image I have of HANA. What am I bitter about?

jdl

[jonnielu]

Originally Posted by Indulto

You must not have noticed, JL, but not even cash-strapped Pimlico is letting your preferred recruits into the infield on Preakness day any more.

Frankly, I'm disappointed in you; eschewing legitimate criticism in favor of bogus charges you don't specify and/or qualify because you can't. If you actually knew of any novel ways to successfully recruit people capable of experiencing the joys of handicapping and/or wagering when sober, then you'd be too busy making money to bother posting on a message board where people have been dismissing your commentary since even before HANA got started.

To me, that is a good thing. If the day comes that you are not disappointed in me, I'll have to be disappointed in myself.

[Cangamble]

Originally Posted by jonnielu

To me, that is a good thing. If the day comes that you are not disappointed in me, I'll have to be disappointed in myself.

I only have Boxcar on ignore, but you are now asking me to double that list.

[jonnielu]

Originally Posted by Cangamble

I only have Boxcar on ignore, but you are now asking me to double that list.

Don't hold up on my account, I'm not here to please you, or get along with you by telling you want you want to hear.

But, you will be demonstrating the closemindedness that I was talking about.

jdl

[exactaplayer]

I have not voted yet. I am not currently a member. I do support hana's efforts and have bet on their races/tracks. It is interesting to me that this union of players is being supported by some here.

[DanG]

Originally Posted by jonnielu

Oh, I'm sorry, with that in mind, I'd have other reasons for not joining. I disagree that your difficulties with the sport are caused by take out, drugs, or track surfaces. True, management is not doing as well as they could, but when has management ever done so?

Your expectations are a bit unrealistic when you expect racetrack management to be expert at marketing something that has never needed much marketing.

It is natural for them to keep their heads up their rectums for as long as people will still show up.

Your negative message may be intended only for horseplayers, but it reaches many others. A horse race is much more honest then a Blackjack game at a casino, but people don't know that.

jdl

Friends of Johnny Carson used to say he was so adept at arguing a position he would tell people…take whatever side of the discussion you want; and I’ll take the other.

Every discussion has at least one alternative view; but I honestly can’t follow yours. Half of your message above actually makes the case for HANA; but to each his own.

[Cangamble]

Originally Posted by jonnielu

Don't hold up on my account, I'm not here to please you, or get along with you by telling you want you want to hear.

But, you will be demonstrating the closemindedness that I was talking about.

jdl

Close mindedness over what? You haven't made a relevant point. In other words, all you are spewing is negative gibberish. That is why I am considering ignoring you.

[cj's dad]

Originally Posted by exactaplayer

I have not voted yet. I am not currently a member. I do support hana's efforts and have bet on their races/tracks. It is interesting to me that this union of players is being supported by some here.

Why would any rational horseplayer NOT support HANA and their collective efforts?

Could you or anyone here identify ONE negative regarding being a HANA member?

[jonnielu]

Originally Posted by DanG

Friends of Johnny Carson used to say he was so adept at arguing a position he would tell people…take whatever side of the discussion you want; and I’ll take the other.

Every discussion has at least one alternative view; but I honestly can’t follow yours. Half of your message above actually makes the case for HANA; but to each his own.

I never said HANA is completely wrong in everything. The one point that management is not doing the best job that they could is quite valid. However, both parties are failing to get out the single positive message that could resurrect the sport of racing, the good news.

Everyone is equal at the racetrack, and everyone has a shot. Anyone can win.

That was the message that went out from around 1936 to around 1978.

From around 1978 to 2009, while the old message is still true, a different message has been going out that is totally inaccurate. The public responds with buying lotto tickets.

BTW the state lotto was born from the success of the numbers rackets, based on horse racing.

jdl

[jonnielu]

Originally Posted by cj's dad

Why would any rational horseplayer NOT support HANA and their collective efforts?

Could you or anyone here identify ONE negative regarding being a HANA member?

I would be endorsing all of the negative messages of HANA, when I know that, for the most part, they are inaccurate. Mainly the message that you can't win.

jdl

[Cangamble]

Originally Posted by jonnielu

I never said HANA is completely wrong in everything. The one point that management is not doing the best job that they could is quite valid. However, both parties are failing to get out the single positive message that could resurrect the sport of racing, the good news.

Everyone is equal at the racetrack, and everyone has a shot. Anyone can win.

That was the message that went out from around 1936 to around 1978.

From around 1978 to 2009, while the old message is still true, a different message has been going out that is totally inaccurate. The public responds with buying lotto tickets.

BTW the state lotto was born from the success of the numbers rackets, based on horse racing.

jdl

Average track takeouts have risen considerably since 1978 (because exotics are now available in many forms in all races, and even the win take out has risen since then). Yes, anyone could win back then, if they did their homework, and a big part of that was having the advantage of speed figures (that anyone could have done for themselves if they were sharp enough).
It was the only game in town, and there was a lot of mooch money filling the pools. Those who even used a racing form were one out of three tops.

The message today is not inaccurate. Good handicappers are pitted against great handicappers. Yes, everyone could be a great handicapper, but they are still up against people who almost all read racing forms or computer generated reports from sophisticated systems. And drugs have become more sophisticated as well. The mooch money has left the system for slots and lotteries. And price sensitive players are only playing with rebates or have left to play poker or sports betting.

The reality is that you will not get an influx in new players unless takeout is reduced drastically enough so that more winners are created.

If you "think" any of my points above are not valid, you are delusional.

[rrbauer]

Not learning much from this thread. So far we have members; and, jonnielu pissing on members. Would someone please start a thread for jonnielu only and he can just rant to his heart's content.