Crist responds in regards to "Takeout-Gate"

[cj]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

Listen cj you are entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.
By your own admission you say he deserves some blame and " f***ed up."
At no point do you address the degree of blame though and choose to say he was being "scape goated."
See it that way if you want, but I don't.
Whether or not the sport is better off with Hayward than without him is not in dispute at this time.

The fact is he was the CE0 of an organization and responsible for the overseeing of all activities there in. In particular, finances should have been a very high priority item. They are usually paramount in evaluating CEO's worth to a company.

In Hayward's instance, the error that was made was probably several times higher than the annual salary he was paid.
Being party to a financial error of that magnitude leaves little wiggle room except to say he was apparently grossly incompetent in the execution of his duties. If there are other mitigating factors in his favor they will out.

Save the "listen cj" stuff, I never said you weren't entitled to your opinion, just as I'm certainly entitled to question it.

NYRA is a non-profit organization, and not only that, they were FAR from solely responsible for this bad situation. Others could, and probably should, have known about this first. It is astonishing how this is being totally ignored.

[bigmack]

Originally Posted by cj

The all should, or nobody should. Are you making the case that is is ok for the R&W board to investigate something their negligence also caused? How is that even considered, let alone implemented?

By his own words the buck stopped with him. Why go to bat for someone who is willing to let the sword fall where it might?

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by cj

Save the "listen cj" stuff, I never said you weren't entitled to your opinion, just as I'm certainly entitled to question it.

.

No you didn't say that I wasn't entitled to my opinion, but your response certainly tried to negate it by saying "you don't know what you are talking about."
In my opinion, he's demonstrated gross incompetency.

[cj]

Does that mean you won't answer my question?

It is easy to pile on without considering both sides. I prefer not to do that when the side doing piling on has a HUGE reason to do so while not admitting as much. Seriously, if you ask me questions and I answer, then you don't answer mine in return, f**k off, especially when you ask YET ANOTHER question.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

No you didn't say that I wasn't entitled to my opinion, but your response certainly tried to negate it by saying "you don't know what you are talking about."
In my opinion, he's demonstrated gross incompetency.

My opinion is you don't in this case. That is what happens on message boards, when you don't agree, you say why.

[bigmack]

Originally Posted by cj

Does that mean you won't answer my question?

It is easy to pile on without considering both sides. I prefer not to do that when the side doing piling on has a HUGE reason to do so while not admitting as much. Seriously, if you ask me questions and I answer, then you don't answer mine in return, f**k off, especially when you ask YET ANOTHER question.

Who is that directed towards?

[thaskalos]

How can we believe that Hayward didn't know he was breaking the law, when another email has surfaced, in which, association vice president Elizabeth Bracken writes to another executive:

"Takeout legislation sunsets middle of September, but I haven't heard that we intend to lower takeouts"...?

Bracken knew more than Hayward about this?

[cj]

Originally Posted by bigmack

Who is that directed towards?

Clearly you.

[cj]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

How can we believe that Hayward didn't know he was breaking the law, when another email has surfaced, in which, association vice president Elizabeth Bracken writes to another executive:

"Takeout legislation sunsets middle of September, but I haven't heard that we intend to lower takeouts"...?

Bracken knew more than Hayward about this?

Is it a surprise that the CEO doesn't know every detail but those under him are more knowledgeable in specific areas? Isn't that exactly how most places work?

Like I said, time will tell, but the above quote doesn't say anything about a mandatory decrease, and again, why is this placed squarely on NYRAs shoulders?

Why is everybody ignoring the fact that an organization that has the much more specific purpose of monitoring RACING and WAGERING, yet didn't, is investigating this?

[Tom]

The morons in the NYS groups are the ones who are grossly incompetent.
THEY should know what the hell is going on. They make the rules- they are the ones responsible.

Baby Mario is the bottom line here. his people failed miserably - yet again.
Either run racing or get the hell out of the way. No one has nearly as much blame here as NYS - Idiots!!!

[chickenhead]

why is this placed squarely on NYRAs shoulders?

Why is everybody ignoring the fact that an organization that has the much more specific purpose of monitoring RACING and WAGERING, yet didn't, is investigating this?

Because regulators only ever eventually get it right, at best?

How long could I drive on a car without a valid registration before I get pulled over? Shouldn't the DMV have found me out sooner...they are in charge? Who cares, its solely my job to register my car and my fault if I don't. The DMV retains their standing even if they didn't notice right away.

How long does it take the SEC to find cheats? Bernie Madoff stole money for decades. Good work SEC. Who cares, Bernie Madoff went to jail forever. He's solely responsible to follow the law and he didn't. The SEC retains their standing to investigate, even if they missed it forever.

I bet there are people dumping shit in the nearest river right now. Some regulator will probably eventually figure it out and fine the shit out of them.

Yes regulators, all of them, need to do a better job. But it really doesn't have a lot to do with placing blame on people that are not following the law.

And it's really not at all a unique situation, here.

[cj]

Originally Posted by chickenhead

Because regulators only ever eventually get it right, at best?

Sure, but they didn't ever get it right, someone else did.

There job isn't nearly as difficult as you make it out to be. This isn't the DMV or the SEC. I'm pretty sure NYRA is generally TOLD what the rates are. They are not in the business of setting them, and they haven't been for a very long time, if ever. Am I wrong there?

[chickenhead]

Originally Posted by cj

Sure, but they didn't ever get it right, someone else did.

There job isn't nearly as difficult as you make it out to be. This isn't the DMV or the SEC. I'm pretty sure NYRA is generally TOLD what the rates are. They are not in the business of setting them, and they haven't been for a very long time, if ever. Am I wrong there?

I'm not making it out to be difficult, the DMV is pretty damn simple.

I'm generally told when to go register my car...I submit a "request" for registration, and the DMV grants it.

Whether or not I get notified, maybe the notification gets lost in the mail, maybe I just don't understand the basic rules...but I'm very, very, much responsible for submitting that request. It's 100% on me.

Doesn't that sound familiar?

The only case I've got is if the DMV told me, in error, specifically that I didn't have to. And who knows, maybe NYRA asked the NYSRWB, or someone with the state, and was given some wrong info. That is certainly possible I guess and it will come out. In which case I hold them at no fault.

But if they just independently bungled it...that's no different than whatever lame ass excuse someone might give for not registering their car.

[cj]

Originally Posted by chickenhead

I'm not making it out to be difficult, the DMV is pretty damn simple.

I'm generally told when to go register my car...I submit a "request" for registration, and the DMV grants it.

Whether or not I get notified, maybe the notification gets lost in the mail, maybe I just don't understand the basic rules...but I'm very, very, much responsible for submitting that request. It's 100% on me.

Doesn't that sound familiar?

The only case I've got is if the DMV told me, in error, specifically that I didn't have to. And who knows, maybe NYRA asked the NYSRWB, or someone with the state, and was given some wrong info. That is certainly possible I guess and it will come out. In which case I hold them at no fault.

But if they just independently bungled it...that's no different than whatever lame ass excuse someone might give for not registering their car.

Again, I think it has always been NYRAs job to do what they are told with regards to rates. In this case, nobody told them anything. If they want a change, they request one. Suddenly putting making them the prime responsibility in this case seems more than a bit disingenuous.

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by cj

Is it a surprise that the CEO doesn't know every detail but those under him are more knowledgeable in specific areas? Isn't that exactly how most places work?

Like I said, time will tell, but the above quote doesn't say anything about a mandatory decrease, and again, why is this placed squarely on NYRAs shoulders?

Why is everybody ignoring the fact that an organization that has the much more specific purpose of monitoring RACING and WAGERING, yet didn't, is investigating this?

It's getting deep now that the IG's office is involved. Search warrants and more I suspect on the way