THOUGHTS ABOUT AMERICAN PHAROAH

[ebcorde]

if Pharoah delivers on the breeding, look out, stud fees will go higher, the horse was tired AT Saratoga else he did what people thought was impossible
before may 2nd. HE CRUSHED THAT BREEDER'S CUP FIELD!!!!!!!!!. OLDER HORSES? HA HA HA HA HA
OF COURSE THE NEGATIVE GUYS WILL MAKE EXCUSES FOR ALL HIS WINS.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by ebcorde

if Pharoah delivers on the breeding, look out, stud fees will go higher, the horse was tired AT Saratoga else he did what people thought was impossible
before may 2nd. HE CRUSHED THAT BREEDER'S CUP FIELD!!!!!!!!!. OLDER HORSES? HA HA HA HA HA
OF COURSE THE NEGATIVE GUYS WILL MAKE EXCUSES FOR ALL HIS WINS.

It doesn't have to do with 'negative guys' its just some people view this game strictly from a handicapping standpoint, weighing strengths and weaknesses of the athletes for gambling purposes only. To some, it's just handicapping and they leave the face paint and the cute signs to others.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I have always disagreed with this and will continue to vehemently disagree with this statement.

Will an owner eventually win the TC and retire the horse the morning of the first Sunday in June? I'm sure it will happen...however, this will never be the norm, as some on here are always predicting whenever a TC is on the line (or in this year's case, actually won).

Well, bear in mind, AP just had the second shortest post-TC career of any of the 12. (Only Count Fleet, who got injured and ran during WW2 when a lot of tracks were closed, raced less.)

I mean, I did concede and do concede that the BC Classic win after the TC is a big deal, but really, American Pharoah running in three races after the TC is just outrageous. Even Seattle Slew, who got hurt, and Secretariat, who retired at the end of his three year old season, did more than that. Affirmed, Citation, and Whirlaway had proper careers.

I don't think there's substantively that much difference between three starts and zero starts. It's basically "we won the TC, now we are going to cash our checks and get rich". The breeding industry, which is supposed to SERVE racing and be subordinate to it, now rules it.

[luisbe]

Originally Posted by tzipi

Yeah the two speed horses scratch out and he walk easy upfront once again.

Making Honor Code, Tonalist and Frosted look like claimers?
You're analyzing the race as if they were a 10000 low level horses.

[whodoyoulike]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

this year we are going to have the chance to see CALIFORNIA CHROME and SHARED BELIEF as older horses after we lost the opportunity to watch BEHOLDER in the classic.

I really hope CC runs in 2016 but wasn't he supposed to be sent for stud service after Dubai, Europe or has that changed?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I don't think there's substantively that much difference between three starts and zero starts.

Ummmmm...ok

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by whodoyoulike

I really hope CC runs in 2016 but wasn't he supposed to be sent for stud service after Dubai, Europe or has that changed?

He's back in training at Los Alamitos and should be race ready by early next year. However, the main target is a repeat trip to Dubai for the World Cup, so don't anticipate more than one start in the winter in CA. The next time beyond March that he is seen stateside will probably be the Pacific Classic.

Not sure why you wouldn't try and run the table at Santa Anita with the San Pasqual, San Antonio, Big Cap, Californian, and Gold Cup there for the taking. Even if Shared Belief is ready in time, he should be able to hold his own.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

He's back in training at Los Alamitos and should be race ready by early next year. However, the main target is a repeat trip to Dubai for the World Cup, so don't anticipate more than one start in the winter in CA. The next time beyond March that he is seen stateside will probably be the Pacific Classic.

Not sure why you wouldn't try and run the table at Santa Anita with the San Pasqual, San Antonio, Big Cap, Californian, and Gold Cup there for the taking. Even if Shared Belief is ready in time, he should be able to hold his own.

If ever there was a group of runners ripe to be easy pickings for a horse returning off a long layoff, it is the older male SoCal stakes division.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by cj

If ever there was a group of runners ripe to be easy pickings for a horse returning off a long layoff, it is the older male SoCal stakes division.

Good thing they completely dismantled the Strub series. Only the Malibu exists any longer.

That means Dortmund has to run against older horses straight away next year. No ducking Hard Aces and Alert Bay.

What a disaster. They should cancel all turf stakes and force anything of stakes caliber onto the main track. The grass course is completely f'ed up over at Santa Anita anyways.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Ummmmm...ok

I gave you examples of what a proper career looks like. American Pharoah's career is the equivalent of Steffi Graf winning the Grand Slam and the Olympic Games at age 18 in 1988 and then playing in 2 more tournaments and announcing "that's it, I've done it all, you don't get to see me play anymore, sorry fans". Or Magic Johnson retiring after his first NBA title in 1980.

3 starts IS zero starts. Is "I refuse to give an entirely healthy horse a proper career because I would rather cash checks from the breeding shed". It's terrible for the sport. It's selfish. It's unsportsmanlike. It cheats the fans. And it gives people no way to accurately assess the horse's abilities.

American Pharoah should have started at least 20 more times after the TC. You heard me right. 20 more times. Similar to Affirmed, Citation, and Whirlaway.

[cj]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I gave you examples of what a proper career looks like. American Pharoah's career is the equivalent of Steffi Graf winning the Grand Slam and the Olympic Games at age 18 in 1988 and then playing in 2 more tournaments and announcing "that's it, I've done it all, you don't get to see me play anymore, sorry fans". Or Magic Johnson retiring after his first NBA title in 1980.

3 starts IS zero starts. Is "I refuse to give an entirely healthy horse a proper career because I would rather cash checks from the breeding shed". It's terrible for the sport. It's selfish. It's unsportsmanlike. It cheats the fans. And it gives people no way to accurately assess the horse's abilities.

American Pharoah should have started at least 20 more times after the TC. You heard me right. 20 more times. Similar to Affirmed, Citation, and Whirlaway.

Steffi Graf couldn't make more money by retiring after the Golden Slam than she could by continuing to play. It is a different game now. Who among us wouldn't cash out when offered the money the Zayat's were offered? Only the richest of the rich.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by cj

Steffi Graf couldn't make more money by retiring after the Golden Slam than she could by continuing to play. It is a different game now. Who among us wouldn't cash out when offered the money the Zayat's were offered? Only the richest of the rich.

Jess Jackson?

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by cj

Steffi Graf couldn't make more money by retiring after the Golden Slam than she could by continuing to play. It is a different game now. Who among us wouldn't cash out when offered the money the Zayat's were offered? Only the richest of the rich.

On a pure level of individual freedom, sure, I understand why people cash in. But that doesn't mean that we should pretend that we should be all thankful that these guys raced their perfectly healthy and sound horse a grand total of THREE times. Oh yes, Mr. Zayat, thank you for being SO sportsmanlike and running your horse a couple of more times before cashing in.

No. This is bad. Just because we understand why people cash in doesn't mean that it's good. In my business, people sometimes see an opportunity to file a lawsuit based on an overstated injury. It happens. And I totally understand that this might be some working class' person's only opportunity to make a big score, and that the people paying the money (insurance companies, usually) are not sympathetic. But that's an entirely different discussion from what's right, or whether that person SHOULD seek that money, or whether it is good for the broader society that the person seeks that money.

The fact of the matter is, if you win the TC with a sound horse and don't keep racing in a proper career, like Affirmed, Citation, and Whirlaway did, you are crap. You are putting your own desires to go from being rich to being very rich above the interests of the sport you claim to love and which gives you the opportunity to win the TC in the first place. And the breeders and yearling sale gamblers who create this incentive are helping to destroy the sport.

Sometimes, there are things one has a right to do, and which one benefits from doing, but which are nonetheless awful things to do. This is one of those situations.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

The fact of the matter is, if you win the TC with a sound horse and don't keep racing in a proper career, like Affirmed, Citation, and Whirlaway did, you are crap. You are putting your own desires to go from being rich to being very rich above the interests of the sport you claim to love and which gives you the opportunity to win the TC in the first place. And the breeders and yearling sale gamblers who create this incentive are helping to destroy the sport.

.

Very high-minded post, but given Zayat said repeatedly AP was "America's horse" you have a point.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by cj

Steffi Graf couldn't make more money by retiring after the Golden Slam than she could by continuing to play. It is a different game now. Who among us wouldn't cash out when offered the money the Zayat's were offered? Only the richest of the rich.

That wasn't what happened. He cashed out because he didn't pay prior bills and had to file bankruptcy. He was on a plan to come out of bankruptcy and had a big payment towards the end. He had to sell his 2yo champ and its dam (and perhaps others) to make the payment to come out of bankruptcy.

The end result was the same, signing on the dotted line giving a stud farm the right to retire which they'll always do.

The owners can be faulted for cashing out, but hell, with as much as they put into the sport, it's understandable to a degree why they have to cash out when they can. It's the stud farms who we should really blame. Very few of them actually put in much money as owners, they just like to rake in the stud fees. They don't even take much if any risk anymore. They'll pay for the stallion what they can collect back in stud fees quickly. Then they get the one in 10 or so that hits, and they're sitting pretty. Little to no risk and all reward.