Guillot files ... claims buzzer used on WTC in Travers

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Grits

You're telling someone else "why not let it play out?"

Yet, here you are with your repeated post trying to build a case as though you're a prosecuting attorney?

Right. Fine advice.... roll on.....

The other guy said "nothing happened, case closed" I ASKED the question and brought up the point about what i saw on video. I didnt suggest i thought he was guilty or innocent, i just stated an observation, its an observation that anyone can come up with on their own if they just watch the tape.

You never answered my question about Jose Santos and what his situation has to do with the Saez situation.

[Tom]

Are buzzers allowed at SRU Downs?

[magwell]

Originally Posted by Tom

Are buzzers allowed at SRU Downs?

It was only a rumor........

[Hoofless_Wonder]

No buzzers at SRU Downs, though of course the result stands and the jockey is given days or banned for life afterwards....

I don't see anything to this buzzer horse, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. The thing I look for is the tail of the horse snapping up and down sharply. Will Take Charge's tail doesn't do this in the stretch.

However, within the last few weeks, there was a horse in a stakes race (which I can't recall) that did have tail movement exactly like a buzzed horse. Can't remember if it was the winner or just one of the top three, but I was surprised to see that at a major track in a big race...the buzzer is usually for the bush leagues.

[Robert Fischer]

first of all I love the drama.


Too Long Didn't Read version (TLDR) = Nothing unusual about Will Take Charge's performance.
If Saez did cheat, it didn't make Will Take Charge faster, and he managed to pull off a busy ride at the same time.


----------------
FULL VERSION FOR HARDCORE FANS/PLAYERS

Saez has some idiosyncrasies, and those movements add fuel to the fire.

I'm going to look at Will Take Charge's Travers and his Jim Dandy.
He looks to have run the same race in both events. His persistent continual one-paced effort projects the illusion of a late 'burst' in both stretch runs.

In the Travers, Moreno inherited a Fantasy trip. (beyond a dream trip)
Verrazano "the superhorse", never impacted anything in that race except my wagering dollars !
Palace Malice also failed to even show up on Moreno's radar.
Moreno got a stress-free trip and was left to fend off plodders late. Moreno weakened a bit late.

Moreno was not a Travers winning horse, and he did not run a Travers winning horse race.
Either did Will Take Charge.


WTC is an overachiever, and is a likeable horse who just keeps on grinding, but any type of Grade I appearance in that race was an illusion. Have to love "the Coach!" and his game horse, but it was a win by default.


So in the basic fundamentals of the race itself, Will Take Charge showed no benefit of a buzzer or machine. He ran the same race in the Jim Dandy with a different jock.


NEXT I will have to look at Saez' ride.
He got a fantasy trip in a low quality Grade I, but Saez also did a nice job of going Lefty(keeping WTC to the outside of the tiring Moreno), and was giving Vigorous encouragement throughout the stretch drive. Nice ride Saez.

For what little it is worth, Saez was very busy and displayed versatile stick-work during the time that he was allegedly 'plugging-in' the winner Will Take Charge.
Ditto disclaimer also for the fact that I could not see either an object or a movement during that busy stretch run which looked like Saez was shocking the horse.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by Hoofless_Wonder

The thing I look for is the tail of the horse snapping up and down sharply. Will Take Charge's tail doesn't do this in the stretch.

Excellent point , and one I forgot to check for. Tell-tail sign.

[Birdstone]

Originally Posted by Hoofless_Wonder

No buzzers at SRU Downs, though of course the result stands and the jockey is given days or banned for life afterwards....

I don't see anything to this buzzer horse, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. The thing I look for is the tail of the horse snapping up and down sharply. Will Take Charge's tail doesn't do this in the stretch.

However, within the last few weeks, there was a horse in a stakes race (which I can't recall) that did have tail movement exactly like a buzzed horse. Can't remember if it was the winner or just one of the top three, but I was surprised to see that at a major track in a big race...the buzzer is usually for the bush leagues.

Is that what is meant when a horse is "tail-swishing?"

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Originally Posted by Birdstone

Is that what is meant when a horse is "tail-swishing?"

I don't believe so - the tail can be gyrating like a helicopter blade, and that can simply mean the horse is exhausted.

But often, when a horse is buzzed, you can see the tail snap up-and-down sharply, inline with the body. The horse will often jump sharply right or left as well.

Sad, but this does happen sometimes.

[iceknight]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

first of all I love the drama.

Moreno was not a Travers winning horse, and he did not run a Travers winning horse race.
Either did Will Take Charge.

WTC is an overachiever, and is a likeable horse who just keeps on grinding, but any type of Grade I appearance in that race was an illusion. Have to love "the Coach!" and his game horse, but it was a win by default.

So in the basic fundamentals of the race itself, Will Take Charge showed no benefit of a buzzer or machine. He ran the same race in the Jim Dandy with a different jock.

I respect your analysis on PA in general, but I am not sure what's with the backhanded compliments to WTC.
What does he have to do get a "real Grade I" ..beat Wise Dan in a 1mi turf stakes or does he have to resurrect Secretariat and beat him in the Belmont? Haskell, Belmont, Wood memorial winners were in this race and WTC beat them fair and square on a early speed favoring track.
He definitely got checked in the Derby by the "beast" Verrazano or he would have done better than what he got. WTC has also beaten Oxbow earlier who went on to win Preakness.
I guess some people are never satisfied unless a Sunday Silence/Easy Goer type duel happens...gawd!

[098poi]

I think I recall recently at Del Mar down the stretch a horse was being hit with the whip and Trevor commented the horse didn't like it as his tail moved. Didn't seem like anything illegal but I was surprised Trevor even mentioned the tail.

[Milkshaker]

I like to watch horses gallop out with binoculars because 99% of the people I'm betting against do not do this.

I have noticed on my circuit that jockeys each have their patterns or idiosyncrasies when pulling horses up on the far turn. Not every time, but most of the time they do things in similar fashion.

Would love to see how Saez usually pulls horses up and what he does with his hands. It would help to determine if touching near the saddle pad, switching the stick, etc...Is normal MO for him on the gallop out.

[chadk66]

Originally Posted by Grits

You're telling someone else "why not let it play out?"

Yet, here you are with your repeated post trying to build a case as though you're a prosecuting attorney?

Right. Fine advice.... roll on.....

I think he like I am just pointing out some abnormal things we see on the gallop out.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Tom

Are buzzers allowed at SRU Downs?

No. No buzzers allowed.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

first of all I love the drama.


Too Long Didn't Read version (TLDR) = Nothing unusual about Will Take Charge's performance.
If Saez did cheat, it didn't make Will Take Charge faster, and he managed to pull off a busy ride at the same time.


----------------
FULL VERSION FOR HARDCORE FANS/PLAYERS

Saez has some idiosyncrasies, and those movements add fuel to the fire.

I'm going to look at Will Take Charge's Travers and his Jim Dandy.
He looks to have run the same race in both events. His persistent continual one-paced effort projects the illusion of a late 'burst' in both stretch runs.

In the Travers, Moreno inherited a Fantasy trip. (beyond a dream trip)
Verrazano "the superhorse", never impacted anything in that race except my wagering dollars !
Palace Malice also failed to even show up on Moreno's radar.
Moreno got a stress-free trip and was left to fend off plodders late. Moreno weakened a bit late.

Moreno was not a Travers winning horse, and he did not run a Travers winning horse race.
Either did Will Take Charge.


WTC is an overachiever, and is a likeable horse who just keeps on grinding, but any type of Grade I appearance in that race was an illusion. Have to love "the Coach!" and his game horse, but it was a win by default.


So in the basic fundamentals of the race itself, Will Take Charge showed no benefit of a buzzer or machine. He ran the same race in the Jim Dandy with a different jock.


NEXT I will have to look at Saez' ride.
He got a fantasy trip in a low quality Grade I, but Saez also did a nice job of going Lefty(keeping WTC to the outside of the tiring Moreno), and was giving Vigorous encouragement throughout the stretch drive. Nice ride Saez.

For what little it is worth, Saez was very busy and displayed versatile stick-work during the time that he was allegedly 'plugging-in' the winner Will Take Charge.
Ditto disclaimer also for the fact that I could not see either an object or a movement during that busy stretch run which looked like Saez was shocking the horse.

Guillot's assertion was that the buzzer was used in the final 16th, but maybe he shouldnt have boxed himself into such a corner and just said that the horse might have gotten hit with the machine at any point in the race.

[5k-claim]

Originally Posted by chadk66

looked to me there was something in his right hand when he switched the stick over to his right hand. he looked down at his hand when he stuck the whip in there. then when you get a side view, he grabs the reigns and it is a little ackward when he has the reins and the stick and whatever else it was. so he appears to stick whatever else there was under the pomel of the saddle. hmmm this will get interesting.

With a post like this you should be well on your way to winning the Trainer title at SRU Downs.

Congratulations.
.