Guillot files ... claims buzzer used on WTC in Travers - Page 6 - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

Stillriledup · 08-31-2013, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milkshaker

I love this quote from DRF:

"Sources also confirmed that the stewards did interview Saez on Saturday and that his locker was searched."

Searching his locker is like when the tracks all of a sudden required extra security guards posted outside the mutuel offices at tracks nationwide after the 2002 BC Fix Six.

Searching his locker is the 'easy way out'. They can search, interview and whatnut before they clear him of any wrongdoing.

If Saez is guilty and gets caught, it obviously looks bad for him, but it also looks bad for the people who caught him.....its not good PR for the track to catch him breaking racing rules in this fashion.....know what i'm saying?

What they really ought to do is spend days and days and go back and review every Mount that Saez has ridden in 2013. They need to review all video tapes, top to bottom, watching gallop outs, etc. And, that's just a start, they would also need to review betting patterns on all horses ridden by this guy to see if there's any "connector" in the betting pools. This would be a painstaking process and would take months to complete....but, we all know that they're just going to say "nothing in the locker, the guy is innocent, case closed" and toss Guillot under the bus as a disgruntled sore loser rather than really dig into this case the way they really need to dig into it.

turninforhome10 · 08-31-2013, 11:10 PM

It seems to me that there will be 3 responses to this.
1) The person who loves the sport so much that they can't believe
2) The person who loves the sport so much that they want to see an investigation.
3) The conspiracy theorist that uses the sport to support either as a livelihood or a degenerate gambler.
I would prefer to think I am in the 2 category. Sorry, I have been there. Front lines. What I see upon a 30 minute exam of the video is a little concerning. My point is that there is no reason for Saez to move his hands the way they are moving. I will say this though. If a jock is going to use a buzzer, he is not going to do it at the Travers unless A) he is that slick that he or she can pull it off B) he is that stupid\hungry to take a shot on a stage like that to see if he can pull it off ie Billy Patin
I ask you to watch the tape again and try and convince this fan that his hand gestures are not a little bit funny. I find absolutely no reason for a jock to move their hands in that pattern ending up sticking their hand under the saddle by the withers and remain doing so for 3 seconds, when they just won the biggest race of their young career. See fist pump.
But alas, the whole stinking system has no way to really make any decision that anyone is going to be happy with. That is the part of the game that bothers me the most. I know what a horse looks like when they are plugged in and if you are gonna call foul then you better do it before the race goes official. So Gulliot is calling foul on something he did not notice himself before the winners circle. It is strange what the kid is doing with his hands, but is way to late now to want things changed without loosing more fans and potential owners.
Between this and loosing Saginaw, someone from our side better put a foot in someones a** soon or less and lees people will be willing to invest in playing this game whether as an owner or a racing forum website.
But since it is brought up and now we have an investigation, can the stewards and lawyers get it right this time, so we have a precedent for review.

Stillriledup · 08-31-2013, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turninforhome10

It seems to me that there will be 3 responses to this.
1) The person who loves the sport so much that they can't believe
2) The person who loves the sport so much that they want to see an investigation.
3) The conspiracy theorist that uses the sport to support either as a livelihood or a degenerate gambler.
I would prefer to think I am in the 2 category. Sorry, I have been there. Front lines. What I see upon a 30 minute exam of the video is a little concerning. My point is that there is no reason for Saez to move his hands the way they are moving. I will say this though. If a jock is going to use a buzzer, he is not going to do it at the Travers unless A) he is that slick that he or she can pull it off B) he is that stupid\hungry to take a shot on a stage like that to see if he can pull it off ie Billy Patin
I ask you to watch the tape again and try and convince this fan that his hand gestures are not a little bit funny. I find absolutely no reason for a jock to move their hands in that pattern ending up sticking their hand under the saddle by the withers and remain doing so for 3 seconds, when they just won the biggest race of their young career. See fist pump.
But alas, the whole stinking system has no way to really make any decision that anyone is going to be happy with. That is the part of the game that bothers me the most. I know what a horse looks like when they are plugged in and if you are gonna call foul then you better do it before the race goes official. So Gulliot is calling foul on something he did not notice himself before the winners circle. It is strange what the kid is doing with his hands, but is way to late now to want things changed without loosing more fans and potential owners.
Between this and loosing Saginaw, someone from our side better put a foot in someones a** soon or less and lees people will be willing to invest in playing this game whether as an owner or a racing forum website.

Arent there head on video tapes of Saez last few hundred mounts to see if he consistently moves his hands in that matter on gallop outs? Shouldnt be hard to see, its just a matter if they want to be real investigators or they just want to sweep this away so their track doesnt get bad publicity.

turninforhome10 · 08-31-2013, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

Arent there head on video tapes of Saez last few hundred mounts to see if he consistently moves his hands in that matter on gallop outs? Shouldnt be hard to see, its just a matter if they want to be real investigators or they just want to sweep this away so their track doesnt get bad publicity.

I did think the DRF went a little overboard in nailing Gulliot as kook, but Lukas is royalty.

Irish Boy · 09-01-2013, 12:18 AM

Let there be an investigation, and let it be thorough. If Lukas is guilty, then let there be severe sanctions. But if there is a way of showing that Lukas is not guilty (and that might be impossible), then Guillot should face consequences.

affirmedny · 09-01-2013, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

Could there also be a "Tell" in this video? Watch the winning jocks' head. Dont watch the handoff, watch the head. Looks, looks back and then looks again....you know, to make sure.....that....he really high fived the right guy? Not sure what the last little, subtle, glance meant. If you're just high fiving, why would you give a quick glance after you had already turned your head away to watch where you are going?

At SRU downs, you get paid if your horse uses a buzzer.....

iceknight · 09-01-2013, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheEdge07

Anyone here has billy patin's number?used a buzzer to win the arkansas derby aboard vahol..correct the name if its mispelled...the most amazing thing about patin..hes still allowed to race ride..

he was suspended five years.

CincyHorseplayer · 09-01-2013, 12:39 AM

Is this guy Oprah for horseplayers or what?!

nijinski · 09-01-2013, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

I don't think Guillot actually saw a buzzer (i could be wrong) so much as that he felt that the illusion of Will Take Charge's seemingly fast final 1/16th combined with Saez movements lead him to that belief.

My point was that Moreno was simply a tiring horse , that the race itself was slow-ish, and that Will Take Charge ran the same race in the Jim Dandy.

Without a fast final 1/16th or something unusually game from WTC in the final 16th there is no buzzer question.
The whole assertion is based on WTC running down Guillot's horse, not on (AFAIK) some visual evidence of a buzzer.

And it was E Guillot"s brother Chip who started this whole thing and I would
wager that he had a nice wager on Moreno

iceknight · 09-01-2013, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

If anyone can switch a stick with something else in their hand, it would be a jockey...they do all sorts of neat things with their sticks since they have had one in their hand a good part of their lives.

Really, Pace? TMI please

Stillriledup · 09-01-2013, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by affirmedny

At SRU downs, you get paid if your horse uses a buzzer.....

You do. (assuming you win) Winners get paid. (and jocks who use buzzers get disciplined later!)

Stillriledup · 09-01-2013, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceknight

Really, Pace? TMI please

Another "tell" there possibly

. Sorry, PA.

iceknight · 09-01-2013, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish Boy

Let there be an investigation, and let it be thorough. If Lukas is guilty, then let there be severe sanctions. But if there is a way of showing that Lukas is not guilty (and that might be impossible), then Guillot should face consequences.

Yes and IF there is NO conclusive evidence of buzzer shown.. can we strap Eric Guillot to a rodeo bull (mechanical one) and then attach a few buzzers to him...

Stillriledup · 09-01-2013, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceknight

Yes and IF there is NO conclusive evidence of buzzer shown.. can we strap Eric Guillot to a rodeo bull (mechanical one) and then attach a few buzzers to him...

It depends what "evidence" that they find to exonerate him. I would also suggest that this be a more comprehensive investigation considering that the "investigators" have incentive to find him innocent since a guilty verdict would hurt their own bottom line financially as well as perception-wise.

cordep17 · 09-01-2013, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Well well well. Lukas involved in another buzzer controversy?

We all remember the 1995 Kentucky Derby, do we not?

To this day, I believe something was passed between Stevens and Day. The video evidence in that case is pretty damning.

In this case, it isn't nearly as cut and dried. However, I can see where a paranoid trainer might get into his head that a buzzer was used after watching the pull up 50-100 times. There does seem to be some questionable movements by Saez. I don't think this will be enough to make the charges stick. After all, the 1995 Derby review found no evidence of cheating, and as I said, the video in that case was 10x worse than this one.

But it is interesting that a Lukas charge is once again accused of being shocked in a marquee event.

Let's climb into the wayback machine, shall we? (FF to 12:00)

[yt="Fast Forward to the 12:00 mark"]G27sCLfyMgQ[/yt]

There used to be a video on YouTube that was blown up that showed the "hand off" in slow motion...but you can see it in this video as well...

watched it a few times more.
Definitely looks to be a handoff---Im just not sure why the other jockey would be in it...