American Pharoah wins the Belmont & Triple Crown!!

[raybo]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

I wasn't looking for a suicide sent to sacrifice, although that would've made me smile LOL.

All I asked for was to NOT to do what these NYRA pinheads seem to always do. Break well and CHOKE like you're in the WWE.

To compound it, Pletcher says on TV we're going the lead, we're going to the lead.

I should've known they're not going. Been around long enough to know that if they say one thing, they mean another!!! LOL

You seem to sound more and more amateurish as you go along. Any serious player would never believe what trainers say about their intentions before a race (unless they know the trainer and jockey personally, and I mean "very" personally). As I stated in an earlier post, NOBODY was going to beat AP in that race, on that track. The pace was sufficiently fast for a 1 1/2m race at Belmont. When horses, supposedly, are sent to press a strong early type and find that the pace is already fast enough for their purposes, only a very green or stupid jockey would make it even faster, that would b counterproductive to their plan. Their plan is to guarantee a legitimate pace, not commit suicide. The pace yesterday was legitimate considering the distance and track they were running. Had any of them wanted to press closer or even try for the lead, AP would have just stepped up his cruising speed a fraction and he would have just kept going. Again, nobody was going to beat him yesterday.

I'm sorry Emd, you're just wrong on this one. AP may not be another Secretariat, but nobody here is saying that, nobody is saying he's a Seattle Slew, or an Affirmed either. But, in this day and age, he is a very special horse, and I expect we'll see just how good he is later this year, at least we'll see how good he "has to be" to continue winning anyway. Horses that are this good do what they have to do to win, and sometimes that doesn't look very impressive, but a horse that runs this smoothly, with the length of stride that he has, make things look rather mundane sometimes. But, that doesn't mean the horse is mundane, it just means that he does it easier than others. But, don't be fooled, if AP runs in a more stressful situation he'll likely find a way to win, he doesn't need a slow pace and he doesn't need to be on the lead either, he just wins regardless.

[FiveWide]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

Pletcher said we're going to the lead. That is why I'm pissed they didn't. It would've changed the whole race.

This happens ALL the time in horse racing and in other sports. How many times have you seen a broadcast reporter ask a trainer or jockey before a race their strategy and they decline to give away what their going to do. Maybe Pletcher knew his only shot to beat AP was to try reverse psychology. Same thing happens in football. Coaches quite often give out false information to hopefully gain an edge.

Glad to see a triple crown finally. Hopefully this will give our sport a much needed boost!

-Five

[FiveWide]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Triple Crown TVG style. good video here.

[YT="American Pharoah"]F7TL2IvQ2p4[/YT]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=239&v=F7TL2IvQ2p4

Really cool and different perspective. Thanks for posting!

-Five

[pandy]

Has anyone compared his splits and final time to Da Tara's?

He looked pretty damn good to me.

[OntheRail]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

I handicapped the Belmont (1 week before the Belmont) as if it's a 10 claimer at MNR on a monday and I am recapping it as if it's a 10 Claimer at MNR, with cold logic.

Sorry if that bothers people.

Congrats again to all AP followers.

Your just a gambler... not a Betting Fan of the Sport. You played the odds 37-0 and overlooked the 400 lb gorilla.

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

You really believed he progressed in the Preaknesss? Beating up on a pig who had no speed (Mr.Z) and beating a suck up donkey by 5 (with a lifetime beyer top of 72)?

Please keep betting.

sorry, AP was not impressive in any one of the 3 TC races. If he was, I'd say so. He was not.

Most people on here, don't know me that well, except for Delta. I am a rare horseplayer in that I have NO EGO. I am not saying he wasn't impressive because I didn't pick him or etc etc. I am simply judging the horse as I judge all horses I watch in hundreds of thousands of replays.

He's a good horse that got fantastic trips/pace scenarios against other horses who didn't get the same benefit, which makes him look better than he is.

Am I saying he's a weak horse? Absolutely not. I am saying he is not to be touted as a Seattle Slew, a Secretariat, A Cigar, A Sunday Silence, A Silver Charm. He's not fellas.

If AP would've had the trip Smarty had in his Belmont, AP would not have lost by a length. He would've lost by many more.

How about we talk after AP finds his first race with a stressful trip?

And apparently Bitter One at that... Can't Enjoy the majestic tree in a Forest.

[highnote]

It's hard to argue that AP did not deserve the TC. It's hard to argue that he did not win it fair and square. It's hard to argue that he is not the best of his generation. AP did everything that was asked of him during this spring campaign. He is a champion.

To my mind, the important questions are how does he compare to other great champions and what kind of a sire will he be.

We can use speed figures to give an idea of how horses compare across generations.

Beyer gave AP a 105.

A 105 Beyer is consistent with Steve Roman's Performance Figure of -58 for AP's Belmont Stakes.

I believe Beyer said that Secretariat would have gotten a 130 speed figure in the Belmont Stakes. A 130 Beyer would equal about a -123 Performance Figure.

AP's low figure might be of interest to breeders who want to breed horses that can win the spring classics. If the breed has shifted toward an emphasis on speed (which the data suggests) then there might be better sires to choose from to try to produce a classic winner than AP. On the other hand, if there are no sires who are transmitting the right mix of speed and stamina over classic distances then a sire like AP might be the best choice.

I'm in the early stages of learning about breeding and certainly not an expert, but this is how I'd think about it.

[Light]

Originally Posted by pandy

Affirmed, Secretariat and Seattle Slew all wired the field.

Not according to the NBC commentators. He said (I forget which one) that only Da Tara and Assault did. So after you said this I looked at Seattle Slew's race and although he kind of went w-w, he actually got headed a couple of times and technically did not have the lead a couple of times. He certainly had some pressure which makes his win more impressive compared to the "cake walk" of the Pharoah. Don't mean "cake walk" in the negative sense but I would have liked to see Pharoah "earn" it more.

I think what they mean by w-w is that no horse looked at the leader in the eye during any point in the race. I was disappointed with the lame effort by Materiality. But it's clear that horse should not have even been in the race and was a non factor throughout.

Despite the lack of a challenge, Pharoah showed me for the first time that he was a TC caliber horse despite no pressure. However I still think this group of 3yo's is one of the weakest I have ever seen.

[OntheRail]

Originally Posted by Tom

Well there you go...that snails-pace 2nd quarter gave him he edge.

Hey, who cares how he did it...he friggin' DID IT.
After 37 years...we talked about the 25 years before Secretariat.
And we though he couldn't get a mile and a half. And we thought the TC was too hard, then after Affirmed, we thought it was too easy.

Enjoy it. More men have walked on the moon than won a TC (NBC).

This morning, the orange juice was a little bit sweeter, the bacon a little bit crispier. Racing got a perfect day of publicity with no black eyes.

What more could we have asked for?

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by raybo

You seem to sound more and more amateurish as you go along. Any serious player would never believe what trainers say about their intentions before a race (unless they know the trainer and jockey personally, and I mean "very" personally). As I stated in an earlier post, NOBODY was going to beat AP in that race, on that track. The pace was sufficiently fast for a 1 1/2m race at Belmont. When horses, supposedly, are sent to press a strong early type and find that the pace is already fast enough for their purposes, only a very green or stupid jockey would make it even faster, that would b counterproductive to their plan. Their plan is to guarantee a legitimate pace, not commit suicide. The pace yesterday was legitimate considering the distance and track they were running. Had any of them wanted to press closer or even try for the lead, AP would have just stepped up his cruising speed a fraction and he would have just kept going. Again, nobody was going to beat him yesterday.

I'm sorry Emd, you're just wrong on this one. AP may not be another Secretariat, but nobody here is saying that, nobody is saying he's a Seattle Slew, or an Affirmed either. But, in this day and age, he is a very special horse, and I expect we'll see just how good he is later this year, at least we'll see how good he "has to be" to continue winning anyway. Horses that are this good do what they have to do to win, and sometimes that doesn't look very impressive, but a horse that runs this smoothly, with the length of stride that he has, make things look rather mundane sometimes. But, that doesn't mean the horse is mundane, it just means that he does it easier than others. But, don't be fooled, if AP runs in a more stressful situation he'll likely find a way to win, he doesn't need a slow pace and he doesn't need to be on the lead either, he just wins regardless.

This

Well said, sir

[comet52]

I really enjoyed myself yesterday. When I was a kid in the 70's, the racing world was full of the same doubts I've heard the last few years. The Triple Crown could never be won again, etc. Then along came 3 champions in 6 years. People thought it would be easy and keep happening. Seeing so many horses get a chance and fail in the last 20 years shows what a truly amazing accomplishment it is that we just witnessed. It was great for the sport and for all of us who love racing to see.

When I saw AP kill it in the Arkansas derby I just got a feeling he would win in Louisville and put a future bet on him right away. I only wish I'd gotten a triple crown feeling and done the same, but I didn't even bet the race yesterday, I just wanted to enjoy it.

Finally, I can't imagine there are too many places in the world after yesterday where someone would spend all evening slagging this horse as being akin to a Mountaineer claimer, but this place sadly appears to be the one.

[iceknight]

Thanks to this horse, I can finally stop watching Victory Gallop vs Real Quiet again and again and hoping for a different result!

[ArlJim78]

A well written article from SI on the Triple crown.

http://www.si.com/horse-racing/2015/...?xid=si_social

[keithw84]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

CJ tweeted this yesterday, and it was very enlightening for me.

Would love to follow CJ on Twitter. What's his handle?

[iceknight]

Originally Posted by keithw84

Would love to follow CJ on Twitter. What's his handle?

https://twitter.com/TimeformUSfigs

[keithw84]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Triple Crown TVG style. good video here.

[YT="American Pharoah"]F7TL2IvQ2p4[/YT]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=239&v=F7TL2IvQ2p4

Wow! Teared up watching that! This meant so much to so many people!