Probe of NYRA execs may be launched - NYRA may lose slots subsidies

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

So because I know people who work there, I'm not allowed to have an opinion? Nothing I say is an official NYRA statement unless I am quoting one, and I never have and never will state anything from them that has not come out officially.

The only person, myself included, not to blame is Rutgers as he's the only one who took five minutes to ask a question. That's true whatever side you are on in this and whatever ends up happening. The rest of us just went merrily along with it. To be honest, I wondered to myself why it didn't drop back and had ample opportunities to ask people involved directly and never did. So yes, players, myself included, are to blame too for not standing up and asking questions.

Rutgers asked the question, but he didn't get much of an answer...did he?

What makes you think that this scenario would have played out any different...even if there were 100 "Rutgers"?

[Canarsie]

I'm not debating right and wrong here but I've noticed something over these 44 pages. Those who live in NYC or the outlying suburbs (and others) have a different take on this than most of the country. Maybe its because we live here and know how the entire political process works.


Just a thought.

[Tom]

Maybe they know how the track works, too.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Canarsie

I'm not debating right and wrong here but I've noticed something over these 44 pages. Those who live in NYC or the outlying suburbs (and others) have a different take on this than most of the country. Maybe its because we live here and know how the entire political process works.


Just a thought.

I agree with you...but I have noticed something else as well.

The NYRA seems to have some loyal supporters...who are willing to defend it more than other racing jurisdictions get defended.

Look at that article by Noonan...which was introduced here a few pages ago.

He states in one paragraph that his intention is NOT to excuse NYRA in this mess; but in the very same paragraph, he starts with the excuses...

Only $1.1 Million actually went to NYRA, he tells us...and half of that has already been refunded.

We've heard this argument a hundred times already...

As if NYRA is blameless for the other $7.4 Million...that is likely to never be refunded.

California Racing raised the takeouts...and were condemned by all.

NYRA screws the horseplayer in their own way...but finds loyal supporters, willing to extend them the benefit of the doubt.

[Tom]

I don't play NYRA very much at all, but I "defend" it because no one attacking it has yet to make a sensible argument. They were forced into a higher takeout that they did not want, after being literally robbed blind by both NYC OTB for years, who refused to make payments they were required to make, and then by the state dickering them around for 10 years after the slots were authorized - this cost them billions, and yet, through it all, they managed to put on the premier American racing year after year.

There is argument as to whether there was confusion as to when to end it and how, but take that off the table, they fired their top guy. Then, when they replace him, which was not optional, the state attacks them for that! Anyone consciously following this should see right that the state has no intention of being fair in this - which is probably why there was hesitation about lowering it in the first place.

Exactly what outcome do you want to see? the end of NY racing?
Because if handle is any indication, those who were raked over the coals as some here maintain, have not stopped playing there, and that
pretty much says it all.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Rutgers asked the question, but he didn't get much of an answer...did he?

What makes you think that this scenario would have played out any different...even if there were 100 "Rutgers"?

Then there is no point to a group like HANA. I'd like to think that the people still have a little power over their elected officials, though I know that may be completely naive, especially here in NY.

[jelly]

It's like any sports town,most of the locals will protect their home team.




From what I can tell most local players wouldn't care If NYRA never asked to lower the takeout.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Tom

I don't play NYRA very much at all, but I "defend" it because no one attacking it has yet to make a sensible argument. They were forced into a higher takeout that they did not want, after being literally robbed blind by both NYC OTB for years, who refused to make payments they were required to make, and then by the state dickering them around for 10 years after the slots were authorized - this cost them billions, and yet, through it all, they managed to put on the premier American racing year after year.

There is argument as to whether there was confusion as to when to end it and how, but take that off the table, they fired their top guy. Then, when they replace him, which was not optional, the state attacks them for that! Anyone consciously following this should see right that the state has no intention of being fair in this - which is probably why there was hesitation about lowering it in the first place.

Exactly what outcome do you want to see? the end of NY racing?
Because if handle is any indication, those who were raked over the coals as some here maintain, have not stopped playing there, and that
pretty much says it all.

I'll tell you what I want to see, Tom:

I want to see horsemen and racing officials held accountable whenever they screw the horseplayer.

No cover-ups, no unreported mini-suspensions, and no slap-on-the-wrist fines.

I don't give a shit about the racing industry as it stands right now...because the industry doesn't give a shit about their customers.

The entire racing industry is motivated solely by GREED...and it's about time the horseplayer got greedy as well.

My loyalty lies with the horseplayer...because he has been maligned for much too long.

The industry's problems are self-inflicted...but the horseplayer's problems are not.

WE are the real victims in this game...and we should not be wasting our sympathy on those who consider us only as an afterthought.

[chickenhead]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

So because I know people who work there, I'm not allowed to have an opinion?

Blaming the customers for NYRA breaking the law is a pretty stupid opinion, that could only be cooked up by someone living inside on an insane little bubble.

I'd imagine the only thing Thaskolos has ever done in regards to NYRA is send them money. I'd imagine he's been a repeat customer for many years.

And you assign him, the loyal customer, blame for your friends ****up? Sending money isn't enough, buying the product isn't enough, he needs to monitor the law books for NYRA too?

Yeah, bad idea. But yes, your opinion isn't just allowed, this kind of opinion from you is expected, and I'm glad you share it so freely.

[chickenhead]

And for the record...

Rutgers isn't "the only customer without blame" -- Rutgers is an amazing guy, and just an incredible type of very special customer that any company should be over the moon to have. The unprompted, original investigation he did and the lengths he went to try, repeatedly, to help out were far above and beyond what is in any way reasonable or expected.

Rutgers was exceptional.

The arrogance required to reduce an amazing customer like that to something like "barely adequate", and all others by extension to dreadfully lazy in "their duties" of following NYRA and NY state law is literally mind-boggling.

We each of us buy products from a thousand companies a year. We have zero responsibility to act as outside legal counsel for a single one of them.

Zero.

[OTM Al]

Such victims we are. So abused. Such victims and so abused we just keep going back for more. We aren't responsible for anything, it's always someone else's fault. And on and on. Nothing anyone ever does will ever be good enough. I will never understand why people who act like they are so miserable keep subjecting themselves to what they are so miserable about. Guess they are just miserable people.

[chickenhead]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Such victims we are. So abused. Such victims and so abused we just keep going back for more. We aren't responsible for anything, it's always someone else's fault. And on and on. Nothing anyone ever does will ever be good enough.

I believe this should actually be printed up as official NYRA motto.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I'll tell you what I want to see, Tom:

I want to see horsemen and racing officials held accountable whenever they screw the horseplayer.

No cover-ups, no unreported mini-suspensions, and no slap-on-the-wrist fines.

I don't give a shit about the racing industry as it stands right now...because the industry doesn't give a shit about their customers.

The entire racing industry is motivated solely by GREED...and it's about time the horseplayer got greedy as well.

My loyalty lies with the horseplayer...because he has been maligned for much too long.

The industry's problems are self-inflicted...but the horseplayer's problems are not.

WE are the real victims in this game...and we should not be wasting our sympathy on those who consider us only as an afterthought.

Nice non-answer, Thask.
They fired two guys. Then they get grief for hiring replacements.
Yet you carry on like they have your grandmother held hostage.

What specifically needs to done NOW to stop all the whining?
We are beyond platitudes- we are in the real world now with a real case in front of us
No legal proceeding have been started by the state, have they?
Is a trial scheduled? Are arrest warrants being served?

Or is the state all BS and now walky?

So far blather is all that is going on, while NYRA just continues to put out the best product day after day.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by chickenhead

I believe this should actually be printed up as official NYRA motto.

I agree.

NYRA - We're #1.
Ask them why.

What else counts?
Nothing.

[jelly]

Tommy boy,you're not serious are you?the best product? 24% takeout on pk- 3&4.I went down the street today and bet at Churchill at 19%.over 20% less than the best product





It's unbelievable with all the incompetents surrounding NYRA it was stilll able to give the horseplayer a great product