Religious

[Greyfox]

Oh, oh. New film "Aftermath" is showing on November 1.

The most controversial film in the country's history lands stateside on Nov. 1.

On July 10, 1941, half the residents of Jedwabne, a Polish village 85 miles northeast of Warsaw, murdered the other half. The mob, led by the mayor, were Catholics; their 1,600 victims were Jewish, slaughtered over several nightmarish hours with bats, knives, rifles and other improvised weapons.


http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...secrets-651230

[Light]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

If you're trying to teach Thaskalos to meditate, then you might as well teach ducks to swim.

I don't know what Thaskalos knows and to tell you the truth I don't trust what he says all that much as being genuinely what he feels or thinks. He proved that when PA opened a forum just for him to "teach" others. But what did he do? Excuse after excuse after excuse. My son,my this, my that. OK, OK. Everyone gave him time. After that he promised to do what he said he would do but then again more excuses to the point where everyone forgot about it or gave up. To me that is a character flaw and that is why I don't look at him as some sort of PA Guru on this board as a lot do. So I wouldn't be so sure about those ducks GF.

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

(emphasis mine)

Then shut up, already.

Boxcar

Good one. Hey, you intentionally ignored my question about whether you go to church and if not how do you practice your religious beliefs besides being a jerk on PA. (Touche) Is that a threatening question to you?

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

On July 10, 1941, half the residents of Jedwabne, a Polish village 85 miles northeast of Warsaw, murdered the other half. The mob, led by the mayor, were Catholics; their 1,600 victims were Jewish, slaughtered over several nightmarish hours with bats, knives, rifles and other improvised weapons.

After the war 12 of 350 who survived the camps made it back to my father's little Polish shtetl. They weren't there three days before residents made a pogrom. All were badly beaten...three died.

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by TJDave

After the war 12 of 350 who survived the camps made it back to my father's little Polish shtetl. They weren't there three days before residents made a pogrom. All were badly beaten...three died.

I find it horrific that events such as the one you describe (and others) all took place in my lifetime. So barbaric.

[Show Me the Wire]

Greyfox

I find it horrific even though it took place before my lifetime.

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

I find it horrific that events such as the one you describe (and others) all took place in my lifetime. So barbaric.

Thank you, Jesus. Without organized religion none of this would have been possible.

[Show Me the Wire]

boxcar:

Let's clean up your notions about monastic ideology. First you are correct Apostle Paul was fighting against pagan ideas of worship.

Celibacy

However, the monastic ideals were formed on the basis of Christ, Paul and John the Baptist. Paul believed the highest ideal was to be celibate. He makes no secret of this. Men who could not control their desires should get married. But marriage was a distraction, as the married man had to please his wife and not only God. Paul was not a big fan of marriage and family, because it took away from the effort of pleasing God. Additionally, Jesus as pointed out earlier did not regard the biological family important.


Fasting

Jesus did fast and during his fast he encountered the devil and drove him away. While Jesus' body weakened without substance his spirit grew stronger.

Repentance

Repentance which is an action of alms giving, prayer and fasting. Monastic life took roots due to the Pauline doctrine of celibacy, the desire to overcome the devil's temptations as Jesus did through fasting and confronting the devil in the desert or some other wilderness and repentance, which again includes fasting as a way of repentance. Monastic life was established upon Biblical teachings and not as you assert pagan knowledge and practices.

All things lawful

All things may by lawful, but may not be beneficial



Contrary to Jesus and Paul's teachings Luther taught the biological family is important. Is this really a Bible based teaching? The first human biological family, according to the Bible came after the fall. The time when the earth and all that is in it belonged to the prince of the air. Additionally, the fruits of the first biological family was another sin, the murder of a brother. Could this be the reason Jesus and Paul placed so little value on the biological family?

In the framework of a practicality if the vast majority of Christians practiced celibacy Christianity would have become extinct. Luther realized this and starting teaching non-biblical importance of the biological family.

[nomad1102]

Originally Posted by TJDave

Thank you, Jesus. Without organized religion none of this would have been possible.

Without the egotistical western literal interpretation of scriptural teachings none of this would have been possible.

This is what happens when the mind/ego attaches itself to dogma. May as well worship cargo planes.


.

[Show Me the Wire]

boxcar,


These are the meaning of the terms I will use in my explanation of salvation.


Definitions:

Acts

Supplemental works as stated in 2 Peter:

5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

Acts or works alone apart from faith are not a means to salvation. No man is saved by works and works do not entitle a man to God's gift of
faith or salvation.

Atonement

That work, that was accomplished by Christ, is the reversal of the Fall, the blotting out of sin, the deliverance from bondage, the reconciliation of mankind with God

Faith

A gift from God. Faith is not earned.


Repentance;

Acts of alms giving, prayer and fasting Fasting is a varied activity, it can range from abstinence to a full black fast (no food) and varies by amount of time.

Sanctification

That Divine act by which God freely justifies us, and by which He has claimed us for His own.

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by nomad1102

Without the egotistical western literal interpretation of scriptural teachings none of this would have been possible.

This is what happens when the mind/ego attaches itself to dogma. May as well worship cargo planes.


.

Or the simple reason may have been a blood feud over centuries for revenge and power.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Light

I don't know what Thaskalos knows and to tell you the truth I don't trust what he says all that much as being genuinely what he feels or thinks. He proved that when PA opened a forum just for him to "teach" others. But what did he do? Excuse after excuse after excuse. My son,my this, my that. OK, OK. Everyone gave him time. After that he promised to do what he said he would do but then again more excuses to the point where everyone forgot about it or gave up. To me that is a character flaw and that is why I don't look at him as some sort of PA Guru on this board as a lot do. So I wouldn't be so sure about those ducks GF.

Funny, I would have never pegged you as such a big fan of the forum that I started...judging by your childish behavior while my "teaching" was going on there. All I remember from you there were some petty disruptions...during which you were more interested in promoting some obscure agenda of your own instead of listening to what I had to say. Not surprisingly...you reacted in the same childish way towards the end of the superfecta thread that I started here a while ago.

Do you want to know why I terminated my "teaching venture" at the Handicapper's Corner? I'll tell you why I ended it...if you want to know.

I am not fishing for compliments here...nor is it my intention to establish myself as some sort of "guru" of the site. I am a pretty busy single dad with a young child...and my son deserves all of my spare time. But I thought that I had a horseplaying story to tell...and I was sure that some here would benefit if I shared it. The project ended up taking a lot more of my time than I thought it would...but I was wiling to stay the course anyway. I wasn't doing it to draw attention to myself...and the vast majority of the members here were very receptive to what I had to say...but there were a couple here who totally misunderstood my intentions. They sent me personal messages telling me that I was a power monger...whose only intention was to create a following here, so I could establish myself as sort of "guru"...as you referred to me here in this thread. "I didn't really start the handicappers corner for the benefit of others"...they told me..."I started it to promote my own agenda, which, according to some, was to establish myself as Paceadvantage's resident expert."

So, in light of this...I sat back and assessed my position. Here I was, spending a great deal of time which I would rather spend with my young son -- who has no mom -- trying to share some handicapping thoughts with others...while some of the posters here were accusing me of doing it for my own personal benefit. What was the best thing for me to do?

What would YOU have done?

I ultimately decided that I really didn't want to do it anymore...given the circumstances.

It may well be a "character flaw"...as you've stated above. But then again...I never claimed to be without character flaws. We all exhibit contradictory behavior in our lives, because, as Gurdjieff has pointed out, we are all made up of separate, independent "I"s...which often contradict one another.

For evidence of this...just look at yourself.

In the religious thread, you have presented yourself as a serious spiritual seeker...while, at the racing section of this forum, you present yourself as a classless clod.

Contradictions...contradictions...

[Show Me the Wire]

Let me ask you something -- serious question: If I came to you and asked, "Show Me, what must I do to be saved"? How would you answer that question. What all would you tell me that I would have to do in this life in order to save my soul?

Well if you came to me, I would believe you were prompted by the Holy Spirit. Of course much would be dependent how much you already knew or learned elsewhere.

I would tell you if you want to accept God's salvation plan the following things. I would inform you of the importance of accepting Jesus' work of Atonement and the importance of rejecting the false promises of the devil.

I would tell you accepting Jesus' work of atonement is done through faith and faith itself is a gift of God. I would explain the initial acts of accepting God's salvation, their meanings, and the Graces received. You would be told you need Baptism by water in the name of the trinity and repentance of real contrition (sorrow) for your sins.

In continuing in your gift of Faith, I would tell you to grow in your faith by knowing Jesus. Add works to your faith to keep you productive knowledge of your Lord God Jesus.

During your journey, in faith, you will be sanctified by the power Of God.

Turn to Christ in your joys and your sorrows, in your times of excess and your times of loses.

That you must persevere in your faith and when you fall repent and examine your self as to why you fell. Pray to God to give you all the Graces you need to avoid temptation and to trust in God in all things.

What would you tell me If I came to you? Anything different? Were you expecting some magic formula based on esoteric knowledge? I am truly interested in knowing if you expected me to say something else?

[Show Me the Wire]

OOps, I forgot. would also encourage you to read the Bible and the writings of the Early Church fathers.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Well if you came to me, I would believe you were prompted by the Holy Spirit. Of course much would be dependent how much you already knew or learned elsewhere.

I would tell you if you want to accept God's salvation plan the following things. I would inform you of the importance of accepting Jesus' work of Atonement and the importance of rejecting the false promises of the devil.

I would tell you accepting Jesus' work of atonement is done through faith and faith itself is a gift of God. I would explain the initial acts of accepting God's salvation, their meanings, and the Graces received. You would be told you need Baptism by water in the name of the trinity and repentance of real contrition (sorrow) for your sins.

In continuing in your gift of Faith, I would tell you to grow in your faith by knowing Jesus. Add works to your faith to keep you productive knowledge of your Lord God Jesus.

During your journey, in faith, you will be sanctified by the power Of God.

Turn to Christ in your joys and your sorrows, in your times of excess and your times of loses.

That you must persevere in your faith and when you fall repent and examine your self as to why you fell. Pray to God to give you all the Graces you need to avoid temptation and to trust in God in all things.

What would you tell me If I came to you? Anything different? Were you expecting some magic formula based on esoteric knowledge? I am truly interested in knowing if you expected me to say something else?

Actually, I would present the gospel differently than you have. I don't have the time right now to share with you how I essentially and substantially share the gospel with people (for each set of circumstances are different, etc.) but for one, I wouldn't tell people that they "need" to be baptized. "Need" is a strong word and it sounds as though that is a work a new believer must do in order to be saved.

Secondly, there would be no reason to tell an unbeliever that faith or repentance are gifts of God. I actually share the gospel like a hard-core Arminian (believe it or not) and stress what their moral responsibility is in terms of their response to the call of the gospel, and what their eternal penalty will be if they do not obey that call.

And I wouldn't tell people to grow in grace by "knowing Jesus" because that is too vague. I would exhort people first and foremost to find a good bible-believing church and if they didn't have one, I would recommend some if I'm witnessing in my area. And the importance for finding a good church would be to grow in faith through the teaching and preaching of the Word of God. Growing in knowledge of and understanding God a can only be done through the Word and in the Spirit. All Salvation is accomplished by the Spirit and through the Word of God.

Perhaps later on this evening, I can pick up from this and go a little deeper.

Boxcar