American Pharoah wins the Belmont & Triple Crown!!

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

He wanted Materiality to press the pace hard, to screw AP and set it up for Frosted, not because it made any sense whatsoever for Materialitys chances.

1) Pletcher said they were going to the lead, period.

2) My grandma could hit the lead in a 1 1/2 race.

Was is that unreasonable to believe that a talented, speed horse like Materiality would hit the lead or go head and head with the only other speed in the race?

The race was not 6F people. They didn't rattle off a 21 1/5 and Materiality couldn't keep up.

It wasn't a 1M race people with a 22 2/5 that JV wanted no part of and chose to sat off.

It was a 1 1/2 mile marathon with pedestrian fractions.

He simply decided to forfeit the race to AP. good for you and good for AP.

Happens all the time in horse racing. I am not complaining.

all I'm saying is they give him the TC, AP didn't throw it away, he's an ok horse. Stop acting like he jumped over an earhquake that opened up the earth at the 7/8th's, put away groovy in a duel and held off Zenyatta.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

if 24.32 is serious racehorse time then I want you to wager on Coach Inge in the Breeders Cup Classic at 1/9.

After all he came home in 23.96, he must be the second coming of Secretariat!!

Couple of points.

1. There was a bit of wind today that shifted during the day. So I don't think we'll be able to make definitive comparisons between the two sets of fractions.

2. The 8F and 10F fractions were about a second slower for Coach Inge

3. The recent history of the 3yos has been for them to struggle with the distance of the Belmont and come home slow. Given that AP had come home slow in the first 2 legs (albeit with a fast pace in the Preakness), I wasn't expecting a closing quarter like that. It's not a forgone conclusion that a slower pace will lead to a fast closing time on that kind of stretch out. I'm impressed because IMO he's not just a very fast horse. We've seen plenty of those. He's a legit 12F horse.

[highnote]

Originally Posted by whodoyoulike

So, how fast do you think he should have gone in the early fractions?

I don't really have an opinion on how fast he should have run the early fractions. My point is that he ran as fast as he needed to. There really wasn't much early pressure. That's not Espinoza's fault.

Originally Posted by whodoyoulike

Again, he led throughout the race. And, I'm learning a lot from everyone's negative responses. I hope you guys see the errors in your posts and are just being blinded by your emotions. If not then good, I hope we end up in the same wagering pools.

Not sure if this part of your post is aimed at me. I can only speak about what I saw today and then try to compare it to other Belmont Stakes.

AP won the TC and he did it in fast time off of a moderate pace without much of a challenge from any competitor and he was the only runner in all 3 TC races. He is the best of his generation. His tail male line is outstanding.

For me, there are more positives than negatives and I'm happy to have been able to see two TC winners in real time in my lifetime.

But this game is more than just cashing tickets. It's also about the improvement of the breed.

What, if any, is the relationship between AP's TC win and the improvement of the breed?

[LottaKash]

Originally Posted by horses4courses

Anyone who bet serious money on today's race,
or any of this year's TC races, needs their head examined.

I am making an appointment right now...

This is what I will say to the Shrink:

"I feel so stupid, the only play I made was, a one way straight exacta with AP on top of Frosted, and it only paid close to 6/1"...

[raybo]

All the hater stuff from a couple of posters is to be expected when their horse(s) gets beat. My opinion of the race? Nobody was going to beat AP today, if he had been pressed harder he would have done what he needed to do to win. Good horses make their race, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE COMPETITION OFFERS.

Sure it would have been more exciting to see a pace duel, in a mile and a half race, on a deep track like Belmont, with turns that go on forever, etc., etc., but I doubt seriously that would have made any difference in the winner's saddle cloth number today.

I, and most other decent 'cappers, thought AP was the horse to beat, no doubt about that for us, but we also knew that if the race was to be bet, at all, it would not be a bet on AP to win, or in an exacta. I had Frosted, MadeFromLucky, and Mubtaahij as my small win bets (yes, flat bet all 3), and had a smallish superfecta saver that included AP on the win line. So, my win bets lost but my saver got my money back plus a few bucks. This race was only a good betting race if you could beat AP for win and place, and that was no cinch, for sure. He's just that good, and needed to decline to get beat here.

So, basically, the race was a chance to make a few bucks (or a few more if AP didn't fire). But, the big thing about the race was a very good chance of seeing the first TC winner since '79. I, and my better half, were up on our feet in front of the TV jumping up and down at the 1/8th pole, because we knew he could only lose after that, if he broke down. This horse is very good, right now, and I hope like hell he races in the BCC, because I really think we haven't seen what he can really do yet, he's only done what he needed to do to win so far, nothing spectacular, because he hasn't needed to.

Congratulations to the horse, the jockey, the trainer, the owner, and all the thousands of true racing fans, who have endured all these many years of disappointment!!!

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

1) Pletcher said they were going to the lead, period.

2) My grandma could hit the lead in a 1 1/2 race.

Was is that unreasonable to believe that a talented, speed horse like Materiality would hit the lead or go head and head with the only other speed in the race?

The race was not 6F people. They didn't rattle off a 21 1/5 and Materiality couldn't keep up.

It wasn't a 1M race people with a 22 2/5 that JV wanted no part of and chose to sat off.

It was a 1 1/2 mile marathon with pedestrian fractions.

He simply decided to forfeit the race to AP. good for you and good for AP.

Happens all the time in horse racing. I am not complaining.

all I'm saying is they give him the TC, AP didn't throw it away, he's an ok horse. Stop acting like he jumped over an earhquake that opened up the earth at the 7/8th's, put away groovy in a duel and held off Zenyatta.

You continue to misread everything about these horses.
AP was the fastest horse in the race, period. He was the talented speed horse in the race, not Materiality
Materiality has nothing in the pace department like AP has so there was nothing he could have thrown at AP to ruffle his feathers any.

Take a break from your delusional rants and please explain how JV pushing a faster pace would have resulted in a better finish for Materiality. As it happened he sat right off the pace and wilted.
Ok you lost big, publicly embarrassed yourself and are very butthurt about it all, we all have been there, but get a grip man.

[Strike The Gold]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

1) Pletcher said they were going to the lead, period.

2) My grandma could hit the lead in a 1 1/2 race.

Was is that unreasonable to believe that a talented, speed horse like Materiality would hit the lead or go head and head with the only other speed in the race?

The race was not 6F people. They didn't rattle off a 21 1/5 and Materiality couldn't keep up.

It wasn't a 1M race people with a 22 2/5 that JV wanted no part of and chose to sat off.

It was a 1 1/2 mile marathon with pedestrian fractions.

He simply decided to forfeit the race to AP. good for you and good for AP.

Happens all the time in horse racing. I am not complaining.

all I'm saying is they give him the TC, AP didn't throw it away, he's an ok horse. Stop acting like he jumped over an earhquake that opened up the earth at the 7/8th's, put away groovy in a duel and held off Zenyatta.

I don't post often but feel compelled to post now. I've read your posts and sat here shaking my head. You say Johnny V sucks? Last I checked he's a HOF jockey. I should suck so much. Is AP a Secretariat? No but he ran the 6th fastest Belmont - not too shabby. He took on all comers; even horses that were rested, and he beat them. As a matter of fact, I think he beat all of the same horses in the past. Maybe that's why no one went with him. Who knows? You should change your screen name to "Negative Ned" - it would suit you better. Please don't respond. I just wanted to get this off my chest.

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by LottaKash

I am making an appointment right now...

This is what I will say to the Shrink:

"I feel so stupid, the only play I made was, a one way straight exacta with AP on top of Frosted, and it only paid close to 6/1"...

Don't tell me the next part.
The shrink looks at you in amazement, and says:
"That's incredible. My investment portfolio is really stagnant these days.
You're obviously clairvoyant, so I'd like you to manage a few million for me"

[rastajenk]

New item on my bucket list is to someday be in front of EMD4ME in the fast lane somewhere and slow it down to about whatever that big truck to my right is doing.

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

You continue to misread everything about these horses.
AP was the fastest horse in the race, period. He was the talented speed horse in the race, not Materiality
Materiality has nothing in the pace department like AP has so there was nothing he could have thrown at AP to ruffle his feathers any.

Take a break from your delusional rants and please explain how JV pushing a faster pace would have resulted in a better finish for Materiality. As it happened he sat right off the pace and wilted.
Ok you lost big, publicly embarrassed yourself and are very butthurt about it all, we all have been there, but get a grip man.

Totally agree and am I the only one thinking that this is getting into that SRU category of responding to the posts just making things worse? Hyperbole like AP being akin to a 50K claimer just makes it look the posts are just looking to incite responses.

I wasn't an AP believer and I was wrong. He blew me away today. He can lay just off or go to the lead and is an incredible horse. I thought if he did win, it would be in the 2:28-2:29 range and he blew that away. Awesome horse, awesome day.

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by rastajenk

New item on my bucket list is to someday be in front of EMD4ME in the fast lane somewhere and slow it down to about whatever that big truck to my right is doing.

This

[raybo]

Originally Posted by highnote

What, if any, is the relationship between AP's TC win and the improvement of the breed?

Well, he can certainly get classic distances, sometimes quite easily, almost freakishly easy. He will, no doubt, be in high demand as a sire, which is half the way to improving the current breed. He's extremely healthy, no doubt durable, physically imposing, with great confirmation, high cruising speed, and a fantastic smooth comfortable stride, and well mannered and easy to train to boot.

I'd say there's a lot of upside for him, and any of his offspring who come from a worthy dam.

[LottaKash]

Originally Posted by horses4courses

Don't tell me the next part.
The shrink looks at you in amazement, and says:
"That's incredible. My investment portfolio is really stagnant these days.
You're obviously clairvoyant, so I'd like you to manage a few million for me"

You did say that anyone who bet serious money on the Belmont and the other TC races should have their heads examined, right ?....

Not clairvoyant, but you made a silly statement is all....This is a betting game and there are many ways to play this game, is all... I just got lucky...

[highnote]

Originally Posted by raybo

Well, he can certainly get classic distances, sometimes quite easily, almost freakishly easy. He will, no doubt, be in high demand as a sire, which is half the way to improving the current breed. He's extremely healthy, no doubt durable, physically imposing, with great confirmation, high cruising speed, and a fantastic smooth comfortable stride, and well mannered and easy to train to boot.

I'd say there's a lot of upside for him, and any of his offspring who come from a worthy dam.

Good points. If he is going to stud at Coolmore then no doubt that he'll get bred to some terrific dams.

I wonder if Pioneerof the Nile's stud fee will go up?

Empire Maker is now standing in Japan. Anyone know how his offspring are doing?

[clocker7]

Cool story about the trophy and its history:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/sp...lips.html?_r=0