Steve Asmussen accused of animal cruelty by PETA

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Hate? What hate? What hate did I spew? I called it like it is. He's ignorant of reality. That's his problem, not mine.

Maybe you can tell me. What happened in that video that hasn't been discussed on this website before?

Why don't you close your account? Why are you even still here, wasting your time on such a barbaric sport?

Horses race on meds. Yeah, that's new...what a revelation.

Some horses race while not 100% sound...oh no...didn't know that...

Some jockeys use buzzers in races...wow...never heard of that before...let me stop supporting the sport...but whips are OK...yeah...that makes sense...

Some trainers employ illegal workers...oh my God...how did I not know this?

What did I leave out?

Why don't you and Mr. 2 posts get in the face of the people whose job it is to take proper care of these horses. I'll give you a hint. It's not the bettor's job to make sure these horses are taken care of...I'll stop betting when I feel there are no more bets to be made.

Couldnt agree more with the following sentence:

"I'll stop betting when i feel there are no more bets to be made"

As long as there are bets that bettors feel are long run winning bets (or even short run winning bets) horseplayers are going to make them. Its not the customer's job to make sure horse race tracks are prospering and its not their responsibility to help the tracks make more money.

[olddaddy]

I dont consider myself an expert regarding this game but playing it for 50 years made me think I knew quite a bit. The things that blew my mind was stevens and lukas and visually seeing the cruelty to these animals. I knew jocks used the battery but I would have never thought they would think about it in a joking manner. And then one of the most highly regarded trainers of our time, the man called the coach, finds shocking a horse to be no big deal and is amusing. The cruelty is probably something I hide in the back of my mind because I really never wanted to think about it.

As I played today, I looked ay my dog and thought to myself, I am her advocate because she needs one and here I am supporting people that feel so much different than me. As I am typing this I am also looking at tomorrows form, a hypocrite I am.

[JustRalph]

http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com...4#.Uy2UZWOn-9w

Casner has crossed over

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't know the answer to this...maybe some of the more enlightened among us can fill me in...

How much worse is a shock by one of these batteries, compared to a solid crack of the whip...or, some of those jocks who can rapid fire 5 or 6 whacks in a row in the same spot...

Is it really that much worse? A battery?

Gary Stevens talks about giving himself quite a jolt...yeah...but he's 115 pounds or whatever he is...I bet if someone took a whip to him like he does a horse, it would hurt like hell too...

So how bad is a battery shock compared to a whip? I'm sure it's more intense...that's why they use it...but is it really orders of magnitude worse?

[PhantomOnTour]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I don't know the answer to this...maybe some of the more enlightened among us can fill me in...

How much worse is a shock by one of these batteries, compared to a solid crack of the whip...or, some of those jocks who can rapid fire 5 or 6 whacks in a row in the same spot...

Is it really that much worse? A battery?

Gary Stevens talks about giving himself quite a jolt...yeah...but he's 115 pounds or whatever he is...I bet if someone took a whip to him like he does a horse, it would hurt like hell too...

So how bad is a battery shock compared to a whip? I'm sure it's more intense...that's why they use it...but is it really orders of magnitude worse?

I think the horse can see the whip as it is being raised, and all are used to what it feels like.
But that battery jolt has got to be, well (and sorry for this)...shocking.

[PaceAdvantage]

BTW, in case some joker starts accusing me of condoning the use of buzzers on horses, let me make it perfectly clear that I do not condone such abuse.

I am not a big fan of whips either, and would be very much OK to see those go away. If nobody is using them, it is as level a playing field as if everyone is using them.

My point is this: why would someone accept the use of whips and be totally outraged at the use of a buzzer? That's why I am asking how much worse they are by comparison.

[stillwater]

I did grab hold of a buzzer once, but it was long ago.It was a jolt,but not that big of a deal.It did not knock me down or even back.For me, from what little I may know....the whip seems a little more brutal.It doesn't do much to make the horse run faster,I have heard but that maybe is not true.The buzzer revelation in the video didn't bother me.

[magwell]

Ive seen more damage done by the stick ..........

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

BTW, in case some joker starts accusing me of condoning the use of buzzers on horses, let me make it perfectly clear that I do not condone such abuse.

I am not a big fan of whips either, and would be very much OK to see those go away. If nobody is using them, it is as level a playing field as if everyone is using them.

My point is this: why would someone accept the use of whips and be totally outraged at the use of a buzzer? That's why I am asking how much worse they are by comparison.

I don't understand the argument that you are trying to make.

I have been betting the horses for 32 years nonstop...and I have read everything worthwhile that has been published about handicapping and betting horses during that period of time. And still I was surprised with what I saw on the video.

Yes...I knew that the horses ran sore and overly medicated...but I was SHOCKED to see a stakes horse still kept racing even though its trainer openly admitted that the horse had "no foot left". And you say that this didn't surprise YOU?

Yes...we suspected that batteries were in use at the racetrack. But we thought using batteries was a rather "taboo" subject that the connections discussed in hushed tones away from the public eye. And we've had trainers here declare that those rare cases where these batteries were used were in the mornings, when the horses were being "schooled in fully extending themselves"...and not during the real race -- when the bettors' money were on the line. We certainly didn't expect to hear top jockeys openly laughing among themselves about using batteries during actual races.

If the horses are being raced even though their feet have become a bloody mess...and if the jockeys are using batteries during the actual races...then what bets are we "horseplayers" supposed to be on the lookout for? Are you kidding me?

If a stakes horse is treated like Nehro was...then how do you suppose a $5,000 claimer is treated?

And if Gary Stevens is using batteries during the races...then what is a struggling jockey at Pallookaville Downs supposed to do?

[OntheRail]

I agree the most disheartening part was Nehro's care or lack of. Can't believe no track vet or other official did not know of his condition. Sure as heck Zayat had to of known. I believe he tried to atone for that sin with Paynter's care.

I will not judge the rest as a cleaver edit can change allot of context.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by OntheRail

I will not judge the rest as a cleaver edit can change allot of context.

Yea, we don't know if that was days after a race where he once again ripped his bar shoe off(apparently had become a reoccurring issue with ripping off the shoe) and did fresh damage to a hoof that they had given some time to try to heal.
He did twice I believe have 6 month layoffs.[he had 7 months off after the Belmont to his 4yo season, and he had 10 months off after the Stephen Foster]


We still have to address the problems.
If a horse needs a special shoe to hold his hoof together or protect hoof damage, - then a veterinarian should first have to exam that hoof, and diagnose that hoof problem, and give the OK for running in a race with a special shoe.
That should go on the horse's medical records chart. The track/gate veterinarian should have access to every horses medical records chart, and if they scratch a horse for any reason - then that has to go on the chart too. Obviously the veterinarians would then have to refer to the chart, and look at any previous problems carefully to give the OK to pass future exams and run in races.
Horseplayers should be also have access to these charts online.

Same goes for any medications.

These are things that we must do to have actual legitimacy.

[mountainman]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I'm not sure I get where comet called you a liar...

Let me help with that, sir. He said : "I don't see the relevance or VERACITY of your vague various allegations against them."

And since my allegations were based on personal experiences with peta that can't be verified or substantiated, the man was calling me a liar. That's indisputable and not a matter of semantics.

Much respect for you and the forum. It's a classy place where I've made friends, learned things, and come to consider myself at home. For that, I'm appreciative.

But the facts are the facts. And I'm not backing down from anybody who disputes that I was called a liar or tried to dictate what I can post on this topic.

[mountainman]

Surely, you can relate. You get pretty fired up when somebody goes personal on you. So, look at it from my perspective.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by OntheRail

I agree the most disheartening part was Nehro's care or lack of. Can't believe no track vet or other official did not know of his condition. Sure as heck Zayat had to of known. I believe he tried to atone for that sin with Paynter's care.

I will not judge the rest as a cleaver edit can change allot of context.

I would imagine that any vet procedure on Nehro was on the vet bills that Zayat received and as far as track vet knowing about it, if Nehro warmed up sound in the prerace, he would have been cleared to race. If his foot was truly bad, he wouldnt have warmed up well enough to race and would have been declared by the on track vet. At least one would hope so.

[turninforhome10]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I don't know the answer to this...maybe some of the more enlightened among us can fill me in...

How much worse is a shock by one of these batteries, compared to a solid crack of the whip...or, some of those jocks who can rapid fire 5 or 6 whacks in a row in the same spot...

Is it really that much worse? A battery?

Gary Stevens talks about giving himself quite a jolt...yeah...but he's 115 pounds or whatever he is...I bet if someone took a whip to him like he does a horse, it would hurt like hell too...

So how bad is a battery shock compared to a whip? I'm sure it's more intense...that's why they use it...but is it really orders of magnitude worse?

It is more of the idea that you shock them in the morning to get them aware that it can happen. Then it comes down to either using the buzzer in the race or make the hand motions and the noise to simulate that it is about to happen. A jockey that rode QH's and was known for using the machine explained this to one morning after jokingly telling him that I had one that needs it bad. I would never have used it as that is not my gig. The horse found a new forever home.

They will shock the living H*** out of you. I was walking through the barn one morning and the jock with the buzzer came by an popped me in the leg. I about pi**ed my pants.
The problem with the buzzer, without getting into the humanity of it, is that the horse can react very unpredictably as some will freak and run sideways and can hurt themselves. I think of it like this. If someone has a whip in their hand and walks up to greet you you might be weary and maybe prepared to be hit, if the walk up to you and go to shake your hand and zap you you are totally off-guard and will probably jump and run.

I watched a 2yo QH get zapped for the first time in a race. (The rider usually wears the machine on their right wrist with the probes facing towards fingers. That is why Blasi was talking about the rail marks on the horses left side, you keep them near the rail before you use it so they won't make a sharp left turn.)
The horse was in the 2 hole and broke on top and had a bit of a lead when all of the sudden the horse makes a left hand turn and goes through the rail breaking both front legs. I was sick on two fronts. One, that it happened. Two, that I probably knew why.
This brings up a point. What was I going to do, report the rider for wearing a buzzer? If I squeal then I am blackballed and might as well quit the business. Get labeled as a narc and you are done. There is this an attitude on the backside that is the jobs of the regulators to catch the bad guys, not mine. Never really have seen an anonymous reporting line. I was more caught up in taking care of my duties and the 50 horses I was in charge of, then to get caught up in an investigation. I report, I get dug through the mud trying to prove it. The backside had it own political system and fall on the wrong side and you become the plauge. Good luck trying to find help. Thinking about it now, I a bit ashamed of the things I became tolerant of . My last stint as an assistant at Parx lasted 3 weeks before I finally said enough and walked off the track for good until I can do things the right way. No more drugs, no more running sore horses, no more cheering that the barn got a cripple claimed.
Sad thing is, I miss the horses more than the people.
The only thing that we could really do as players is organize boycotts and that would never happen.