Guillot files ... claims buzzer used on WTC in Travers

[Milkshaker]

Originally Posted by SandyW

The minute Saez is cleared which will be soon, he should call his lawyer and sue this phony cry baby sour loser for everything that his got.

I believe one of the key components to winning a libel or slander case is proof that the words have damaged someone (ie financially, by direct loss of business). Tough to prove in this instance in my opinion.

[JustRalph]

Can anybody tell me why he was reaching under the saddle on the gallop out?

[PhantomOnTour]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

Can anybody tell me why he was reaching under the saddle on the gallop out?

He didn't reach under the saddle - ever, period.
At what point on the tape is he doing this?
Did you happen to also watch the jock on Moreno during the gallop out?
Seems like he was reaching under the saddle too...hmmm....from about the 4:24 thru 4:28 mark the jock on Moreno has his hands low near the saddle too...what was he doing?
Nothing, just like Saez.

[taxicab]

First of all, the source has to be considered.
Eric Guillot.
Just because you train a racehorses, it doesn't mean you are mentally stable.
It's pretty well understood that Guillot is a clown.
He loves attention, and he want's to feel important.
Anything he says is self serving, "look at me" hogwash.
And.......he's a sore loser.
In terms of the video, It shows nothing out of the ordinary.
Jockey Saez did nothing out of the norm after the race.
Every jockey has hand movements with their reins after the wire.
That's just the way it is.
And in terms of a buzzer, if you are planning to "plug a horse in" you have to try it out on the horse more than once in the mornings to make sure the horse doesn't freak out when the "pop" is administered.
It's not just a, "lets plug him in for the race Sat. deal".
So that must be factored in also.
Do you really think Saez and Lukas were conspiring for an extended amount of time to pull this one off.........very doubtful.

[nijinski]

Originally Posted by SandyW

Guillot never saw anything until his brother talk him into this BS.

Exactly . My perception is he lost a large win bet wants revenge .
No doubt Eric wants the big purse too .

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by PhantomOnTour

He didn't reach under the saddle - ever, period.
At what point on the tape is he doing this?
Did you happen to also watch the jock on Moreno during the gallop out?
Seems like he was reaching under the saddle too...hmmm....from about the 4:24 thru 4:28 mark the jock on Moreno has his hands low near the saddle too...what was he doing?
Nothing, just like Saez.

In the link from post #4 at 6:55 it sure looks like he reaches under the front of the saddle with his left hand?

Btw, just for the record I don't think Guillotine is right at all. I don't see the horse react during the race in any manner that suggests he got whacked. But just watching the tape does make me, a layman, wonder what he was doing on the gallop out.

[BetHorses!]

blown up

the link i saw is private..its blown up ...let me try to have the guy release

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by PhantomOnTour

Your first paragraph is ridiculous - there is nothing to sweep under the rug here, and Guillot is not a whistleblower.
Learn the difference between a whistleblower and a sore losing whiner.

There are different levels of not "keeping it to himself"...you do know it's possible to file the complaint without talking to folks in the racing press.
It's also possible to answer questions with "let's let things play out" then the punk ass allegations he is throwing around.

You didnt read what i wrote. Read it again.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by taxicab

First of all, the source has to be considered.
Eric Guillot.
Just because you train a racehorses, it doesn't mean you are mentally stable.
It's pretty well understood that Guillot is a clown.
He loves attention, and he want's to feel important.
Anything he says is self serving, "look at me" hogwash.
And.......he's a sore loser.
In terms of the video, It shows nothing out of the ordinary.
Jockey Saez did nothing out of the norm after the race.
Every jockey has hand movements with their reins after the wire.
That's just the way it is.
And in terms of a buzzer, if you are planning to "plug a horse in" you have to try it out on the horse more than once in the mornings to make sure the horse doesn't freak out when the "pop" is administered.
It's not just a, "lets plug him in for the race Sat. deal".
So that must be factored in also.
Do you really think Saez and Lukas were conspiring for an extended amount of time to pull this one off.........very doubtful.

Actually the last thing you want to consider is the source. Once the question is asked, there's no need to determine the answer of the question by bashing the messenger.

What's the difference if Guillot brought this up or if someone who was the most respected person in all of horse racing brought it up? You have the message, bashing the messenger is just going to get you sidetracked, its not relevant.

[SandyW]

Originally Posted by Milkshaker

I believe one of the key components to winning a libel or slander case is proof that the words have damaged someone (ie financially, by direct loss of business). Tough to prove in this instance in my opinion.

I don't know about that as it may be pretty easy to prove that an owner or a trainer will not use this jockey because of this hanging over his head even if proven untrue.

[taxicab]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

Actually the last thing you want to consider is the source. Once the question is asked, there's no need to determine the answer of the question by bashing the messenger.

What's the difference if Guillot brought this up or if someone who was the most respected person in all of horse racing brought it up? You have the message, bashing the messenger is just going to get you sidetracked, its not relevant.

What in the world are you talking about ?
Of course you consider the source.
The source is completely relevant.
Paging common sense 101......

Newsflash.....
Guillot is not the messenger.
HE IS THE ACCUSER !!!!

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by taxicab

What in the world are you talking about ?
Of course you consider the source.
The source is completely relevant.
Paging common sense 101......

Newsflash.....
Guillot is not the messenger.
HE IS THE ACCUSER !!!!

You're missing what i'm saying. My point is that using the reputation of the accuser to determine whether or not someone is guilty is a bad idea, its not fact based in anyway. The video tape doesnt change and whether he has a buzzer or not doesnt change, the tape is the tape and he's either guilty or innocent....he isnt more innocent if Guillot is the accuser just like he wouldnt be more guilty if Mother Teresa was the accuser.

[taxicab]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

You're missing what i'm saying. My point is that using the reputation of the accuser to determine whether or not someone is guilty is a bad idea, its not fact based in anyway. The video tape doesnt change and whether he has a buzzer or not doesnt change, the tape is the tape and he's either guilty or innocent....he isnt more innocent if Guillot is the accuser just like he wouldnt be more guilty if Mother Teresa was the accuser.

Have you ever heard the old saying "consider the source" ?
If the source has been wrong before, is of low quality, lacks credibility......
Court systems and law enforcement authorities use it all of the time.
Like I said......Common sense.
And what happened to your, don't shoot the messenger argument ?
Even though Guillot is the accuser......
Did I miss what you were saying there also ?

[Cannon shell]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

What is it you don't understand?

Outriders are not racing officials. Are they required to report any wrongdoing? I'm not sure.

Even if they were...that doesn't mean all outriders will report wrongdoing. Perhaps there is a "thin green line" where outriders generally don't report on fellow riders. Kind of like the "thin blue line" among cops. I don't know...

The point is, just because someone is required to do something, often times, they won't...quite a few people take pride in not being "rats" to borrow from the vernacular of the mob.

I believe that in most jurisdictions the outriders are considered racing officials since the advent of the quick official. They absolutely would be required to report any wrong doing though who knows if they would prefer to look the other way and not get involved with an investigation.

[Cannon shell]

The blown up NBC video shown on TV yesterday clearly shows that there was nothing in the jockeys hands.

And tail swishing does not mean that a horse is getting plugged in, that is nonsense. A horse may swish his tail if he gets hit with a battery but fillies in heat and horses that dont like the whip or even to be touched will do that too.

I once claimed a horse at CD that had been racing in smaller tracks in the midwest including Michigan and when we got her back to the barn she was pretty back sore. We have this device which is an horse massager that is battery operated which is put around their girth with the battery pack going on top of the withers where the saddle would be and right below where a jock would "hit" a horse with a buzzer. Most horses didnt mind this machine even though it made a humming sound from the vibration. This particular horse went nuts when we put the machine on, I mean absolutely lost it. I have no doubt that she thought she was getting plugged in between the noise and vibration and was expecting the shock that obviously never came. I dropped her in class right off the bat and luckily someone claimed her. I dont believe she did much good after that.