This doesn't sound good (for Servis and Navarro)

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

You watch how their horses perform when they move to new trainers.

Top class horses aren't moving around very much. So it's harder to detect doping. So if many of these stakes trainers are doping, you wouldn't necessarily know it.

I agree that "First off Claim" percentage is a pretty reasonable metric for doping of claiming horses.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Greg, I realize you've become incredibly bitter, and I'm sorry for that, but this is BS. Horseplayers have an absolute right to play on a level playing field, and whether or not we "knew" something was going on, does not mean we weren't wronged.

Many players bet multi-race bets. How about the Pick-4s and/or Pick-5s we have all hit that included a Servis 4:5 shot, but while we cashed for ( say ) $500, we also had the 12:1 shot that ran second to that horse, and we might have won $4K had that horse not been effectively cheated out of a win. I suppose, according to you, that's our fault. Well, I have news for you....it's not.

Most don't actually cheat, despite what you ( or anyone ) thinks. Some have, and probably some still do ( though I am guessing a lot of them are starting to think twice going forward ), but stop condemning an entire group because of the dishonest actions of some.

I am bitter, we agree.

Horseplayers have an absolute right to a level playing field...we agree again (this a record?)

Wronged in the context of a right to a level playing field, not wronged in terms of being cheated out of ones money, as some have claimed.

[jay68802]

Some rumors floating about.

Kirk Ziadie - Suspended
Ralph Ziadie - Suspended
Georgina Baxter - Suspended

and more coming?

http://www.horseracingnation.com/new...ing_scheme_123

[Suff]

We mess with animals. Even in the name of love pet owners stuff all manner of things into animals. We mess with cows & chickens using growth hormones. We even mess with seeds and soil to grow better.

Can’t be stopped.

[thaskalos]

What we need going forward is a complete list of the "honest" trainers...so we can tell which past performances are repeatable, and which are not.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

I am bitter, we agree.

Horseplayers have an absolute right to a level playing field...we agree again (this a record?)

Wronged in the context of a right to a level playing field, not wronged in terms of being cheated out of ones money, as some have claimed.

No, they have been cheated out of money, just as anyone that has competed against them has also been cheated.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

What we need going forward is a complete list of the "honest" trainers...so we can tell which past performances are repeatable, and which are not.

Trust no one.
There is no room for trust in the industry - only proof of compliance to strict rules. As verified by independent third parties.

Reading the indictment, The POS Servis should be sent away for life. Every horse he trains from 2018 on should be DQ'd and the owners forced to repay the purse money.

Every track in the country should be up late this week discussing what they are going to do about protecting the players....

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by the little guy

No, they have been cheated out of money, just as anyone that has competed against them has also been cheated.

Its like complaining about a lake of oxygen when you climb Mt Everest.

[turfnsport]

I'm sure someone can run it, I'd like to see a breakdown by owners on win % and first off the claim % for both trainers. Might be some interesting results.

Looch is saying on Twitter he did not know and did poorly with his horses with Navarro.

[Suff]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

Illogical.

Not really. Glib yes. But as a precedent its used in toxic situations like this.

Many examples but recall sandusky nuked penn state. A Pound of Flesh is warranted here. Everybody in racing needs to suffer, to the point of ending independent trainers.

[lamboguy]

i suspect we are all going to be seeing commercials on televisions asking if anyone has been damaged by the trainer's and owners of these horses and should receive compensation, just like they do with the Mesothelioma.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by turfnsport

I'm sure someone can run it, I'd like to see a breakdown by owners on win % and first off the claim % for both trainers. Might be some interesting results.

Looch is saying on Twitter he did not know and did poorly with his horses with Navarro.

War Story?

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by turfnsport

I'm sure someone can run it, I'd like to see a breakdown by owners on win % and first off the claim % for both trainers. Might be some interesting results.

Looch is saying on Twitter he did not know and did poorly with his horses with Navarro.

You mean like John Sadler when trains a Hronis Racing horse?

[Secondbest]

How about the Vets that were indicted. Aren't they there to see to the well being of the horses. These people are worse than the trainers. i hope they do the max.

[Suff]

For the record, Chad Brown & Graham Motion get horses that don’t need PED’s. And if they do, his owner base has a tolerance to walk away from 6 figure horses by dropping into claimers.

Centennial Farms does that. If they can’t run or breed, sell them.

Then we get this mess.